Welding on bolts?

[sirhk100]

Maybe someone with some materials knowledge can enlighten me or send me to a link with info...

I'm interested in welding a tube on the end of a 1-3/4" x 6" bolt so that the tube is @ a 4* angle. To do this, I'm going to turn the head of the bolt round and then mill the 4* angle into the end of the bolt head so that the tube will actually be sunk into the head of the bolt. I've got this all figured out... My question though is on the properties of welding on a grade 5 bolt vs. a grade 8 bolt? If I remember right the bead with a Mig didn't look to penatrate as much or deep as welding onto a grade 5 bolt. Is this true? Could the grade 8 bolt actually become brittle in the welded area? Any worries of doing this?

[1992f150]

I dont see how the grade of the bolt would affect the penetration. But keep in mind when you weld something you are heat treating it in a way, in other words if you weld on a grade 8 bolt, dont expect it to still be grade 8 afterwards.

[SLR]

Kris, I have seen people weld bolts for years. I would use a grade 8 bolt and TIG if you could. MIG would be ok, But make sure you dial in the welder...Duh...
I made a tool for the PT Balljoints. I used 4 grade 8 7\16 bolts.
Put a Radius on the Hex\Head of the bolt and welded away.
The PT Ball joints are a PITA and bent the grade 8 bolts, Put them in a vise and bent the right back to the PT balljoint pattern.
Point being, They where NOT brittle, From the weld or from the bend.
In your case, I would do as you suggested... The only thing I would do is make a cap the would slip over the OD of the bolt and weld to the OD of the tubing. Use 4130 .125 N plate.
So now the bolt is welded from the inside and has a cap the picks up the OD of the bolt and now has to rip the tubing and bolt out to fail. This is where I would use a TIG welding process to control heat and make sure you don't make your tube brittle>>>>>>>>>>>>>SLR

[sirhk100]

Cool, thanks for the info... If I'm understanding what you're thinking about on the method I think it'll interfere with the end use of the part. Your example of bending the bolts and then bending them back summed up my worry about the brittleness for sure though. Tig is possible and I guess I'll probably have it done with that...

[Dave_G]

If you weld on a grade 8 bolt and put enough heat into it you'll pull the heat treat right out of it and it will no longer have the strength of grade 8.

Dave

[Dave_G]

RE:"The PT Ball joints are a PITA and bent the grade 8 bolts, Put them in a vise and bent the right back to the PT balljoint pattern."

Spencer,
Are you talking about the Pro Truck ball joints and what are you using the bolts for?

Dave

[SLR]

Dave, The tool I made was to take apart the balljoints and service the bronze wear cups. The Balljoints had alot of LOCKTITE so a tool was needed...

[fishd00d]

Locktite rules it makes stuff not fall apart!!! lol Why ya think The Piece finished the race????

[SLR]

You put LOCKTITE on Zip Ties??? LOL

[fishd00d]

Yup so they dont come undone and strip out!!

[Dave_G]

RE:"The tool I made was to take apart the balljoints and service the bronze wear cups."

Spencer,
We have a custom tool all prototyped and designed for doing just that but never got around to making it on a production basis. I make all the pro truck ball joints and Ron at Pro Truck had expressed some interest in having us make a tool but it just never came about full circle. I guess it's probably time to get serious about making some.

Also, that bronze cup your refering to is made from BeCu copper and heat treated to 40Rc. Don't do any grinding on it since the dust from Berillium is highly toxic and can kill you. Most people mistake it for bronze. http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Dave

[partybarge_pilot]

"Also, that bronze cup your refering to is made from BeCu copper and heat treated to 40Rc. Don't do any grinding on it since the dust from Berillium is highly toxic and can kill you. Most people mistake it for bronze."

Nice! Makes a uniball look even better! http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[SLR]

Sorry Dave... PAT. PEND. http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Ya, I thought the ball joints would be a 20 min service...
6 hours, 2 tools later and a repair to the LCA, the balljoints where done... Nice parts though>>>>>>>>SLR

[Dave_G]

WOW! http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/shocked.gif It looks like the bore in that fabricated A-arm wasn't a press fit to the ball joint housing and the steering loads sheared off the clocking tab when the BJ housing rotated. The stock pro truck part is made from aluminum and it's a heat and shrink fit to the BJ housing with an aluminum clocking tab.

Dave

[ntsqd]

Something no one has mentioned that is crucial to the success of the weld metal, you need to remove any plating from the bolt. Grinding only smears the plating further into the base metal while giving you a false sense of security because it looks like it's been completely removed. I use Muriatic Acid (pool acid) to do this. Be careful, rinse with water, wear rubber gloves, Do NOT splash it. When diluting always add acid to water, not the other way around. Note that it will start to rust as SOON as you rinse it off. Blow it dry and hit it with some MIG Anti-Splatter.

Incidentally, you can tell the quality of the plating by how long it take to strip it off. AN hardware takes a while. Garbage from the mass marketer hardware store is typically less than 5 minutes.