S10 Trouble

[sweetdevil]

Now I know those are words that should never go together, especially not with my well taken care of machine...

When I turn the key to start the truck, the starter just tries for about 10 seconds before it turns over. When it's warm, this USUALLY won't happen. I replaced plugs, wires, air filter, all that good stuff. I have a friend at GM who put it on the computer and it didn't read any codes. The only odd thing was the ECT sensor read 197 and it hadn't been started for quite a few hours. I thought he said ACT sensor, so I replaced the Air charge temp sensor. Obviously, it didn't fix the problem, so I asked him what he thought. I then replaced the Engine Coolant temperature (what he said originally) and it still did no good. Could it be the injectors? The computer would read something bad if that were the case, no? I don't want to replace those too and it not fix the problem, the _CT sensors were cheap & easy, injectors aren't!

Anyhow, it's kind of annoying, and I'm sure it's not very good for my starter when it takes 10 seconds to turn over if it hasn't been started for a while. Any ideas would be appreciated!

2002 4.3 cyl, V6, Ext Cab, GMC Sonoma with 57k miles on it.

Travis - u are not allowed to reply to this thread... lol http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[IDRA_CRB]

Sounds like the fuel system is losing it's prime. Ask your pal at GM if there is a check-valve in the fuel line/system.


Reese

[tkr]

I'd be willing to bet your fuel pressure regulator is leaking gas inside the intake plenum. We see this problem very regularly. There are two ways to find out for sure:
1. Remove the plastic upper intake plenum and check for either puddles of raw gas or a very clean rear section of the intake manifold where the leak has cleaned it.
2. Pressurize the fuel system then block off the pressure and return lines. If the fuel pressure drops at all you'll need a new regulator.

Blocking off the lines on that truck is near impossible on that truck without the propper tools, so your best bet is to just yank the plenum and take a look. Its not as difficult as it looks....

[properprerunner]

Are you sure no one else drove it besides you? j/k
I'll see you next weekend.

[RRose]

Rhi... I am biting my tongue on the whole "S10 Trouble" thing! You left the door wide open on that one!

In regards to your problem... check the fallopian tube.

[sweetdevil]

Byrce - U rock for driving all that way to help the team! And yes, it's probably just because I let Devo drive it, it's pissed and doesn't want to run anymore.

Ryan - You're not allowed to reply to this thread either

TKR - Thank you very much for the response, I will try that tomorrow am and see if it's the regulator.

[GFC]

there was a flyer that made its way out via mail to a fellow S10 owner/friend of mine right when i began to experience extreemly rough starts(only in the morning after the truck had sat for awhile) the flyer entailed that there was an unoficial recal on the fuel injectors entitling you to a checkup/fuel ingection cleaning service. this did fix my problems. sounds semi on the lines of what you are experiencing. there was a year that they gave up untill the current models but i have since thrown away that flyer. give a dealership a call and ask about the unofficial recal. it is worth a shot and done for free provided you qualify

[BurnIndustires]

I have to agree with the regulator leaking theory... I have an S-10, and the injector stuff is because of the BS chevy spider injectors... they do have troubles with minor things on the 4.3, but for the most part it is a great motor... all the ford guys act like they have never had any problems... Most of the Ford techs I talk to laugh at the amount of repair work compared to Service work they get... If you dont mind havin work done on your truck.. buy a Ford or chevy.. or (cringe) a dodge.. but american trucks definately have their stupid little problems.. get into that plenum and let us know what you find.. It is about time to rip into mine as well.

[matt_helton]

Road map, take it to a chevy dealer and it wont cost you a dime, the emissions warranty is good for 60,000 milies. the fuel pressure regulator/injector assy. is coverd under this warranty. sounds like your problem to me. we see this problem all the time.

[Bryan_D]

First mistake is letting Devin drive your truck. He probably thought it was his Nova and wanted to kill it.

[dezerts10]

Matt,

emissions are coverd for up to 80,000 or 8 years i believe. ihave had my cat replaced twice so far free.

Rhi,

sorry to hear that but soundlike the grimlins are beginning to haunt you too. i know your pain.

Gregg

[matt_helton]

whatever, its under warranty either way. but im still pretty sure its 60,000 miles. they will make exceptions on certain models with certain problems up to and sometimes over 100,000 miles. like the injectors/regulators on the R motors.

[Timmah]

I agree, sounds like it is bleeding down via the regulator. Mr. Helton, what took you so long, I was waiting for you to reply and send Rhi in the right direction. I mean since you are a Chebby guy and all! http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[03YZ450FRIDER]

I had the same problem with my truck, i almost replaced the injectors since i have 130,000 miles its not warrantied so it would have cost 1,000 bucks. I took it to the dealer and it ended up being the fuel pressure regulator. I will bet money that thats what it is.

[tkr]

The problem with the sticking injectors is a little different in that it will usually start right up, but run very rough. With the leaking regulator it will either crank for a long time, or you will have to cycle the key 2 or 3 times before it will start. If the leak is bad enough, it will also run rough once it does start due to all the raw fuel being sucked into the vacuum system.

[RE_Todd]

Does this also apply to the Vortec 7400. My tow rig does this http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[tkr]

So far all I have seen are the 4.3L's and 5.7L's with the problem. But it is the same injector design so I think its safe to say yes.

[RE_Todd]

I guess I'll have to check it out then, thanks

[ACID_RAIN28]

Should of bought a Chevy!

[michael_loomis]

fortunately i havent had that problwm in my 130,000 miles , but when i changed my heads i inspected the palstic hose nozzles for the P O S injection system. a few had carbon buildup on the tip near what looks like a check valve. i cleaned it all off when i reassembled , but even with the new heads the best i can muster is 16.5 mpg.

i have had a problem starting where i turn the key and NOTHING happens, ive traced it down to something under the dash , cause every time it happens , i kick under the dash , and it fires right up. lol. the thought it was a neutral safety switch problem , but for my 97 its on the tranny. maybe matt can shed some light on this one.

[matt_helton]

double check all your connections under the dash and at the column as well as all the way to the starter. once you have verified all those connections and wires, and have found nothing then its probably the ignition switch.

[michael_loomis]

cool thx matt ... what is the little round black plastic box about halfway down the column that the shift linkage goes into ? i believe its got a green and purple wire going into it , but doesnt show up in my wiring diagrams.

[sweetdevil]

I called GMC they said I pay $90 for the diagnostic stuff, they figure out the part number of what I need and see if it is covered under the emissions thing. If it is, then they give me my $90 back. But they wont give me a heads up on if the fuel regulator is covered until I pay the $90 to be sure they have the right part number. The guy also said the emissions thing is only good until 50,100 miles or some weird number... My truck has 55k on it. Matt, are u pretty sure it sounds like the fuel pressure regulator and it is covered under the emissions thing???

[matt_helton]

Map, it does sound like its the regulator/injector assy. problem from what you described. i just double checked with my service manager and the warranty that covers that is 10 years/200,000 miles. the warranty labor operation code for that job is 99066. the only catch for that is that if has to be a california emissions vehicle that was sold in california. now about the 90 buck charge, its common for some dealers to charge that fee but we dont in most cases. GM will pay the diagnostic time.

[tkr]

What a joke. That whole part number thing is a bunch of crap. You just got a lazy service writer. The part number is 17113203.
Bottom line is if it is affecting the tailpipe emissions...which it is...and its not considered regular maintainance...which its not...its covered under the emissions warranty.

[matt_helton]

"lazy" and "service writer" usually go hand in hand. its unfortunate but true in most cases. its real hard to find good customer service.

[yotatech]

I'll second what matt sayed, i have to deal with these guys everyday. Not from the customer side though, but they have thier own idea of how long it should take us to do something.

[Ryno]

Yota-

My dad worked for Mitchell for 16 years. He also was a technician, body shop manager, and service manager for a dealer in Milwaukee. Bottom line is, he was one of the guys that wrote the books, CD's, etc. that they go off of when a job comes in. Service writers and lazy go hand in hand. They have no clue which jobs take 1/2 hr, and you flag 4, and which jobs you just about lose you butt on.

Matt-

Do the R motors also have a valve issue? I have heard alot of guys with the 5.7 vortecs talk about a sticky valve problem they had a while back. Shed some light for me?

Ryan

[sweetdevil]

Well, it wasn't the spark plugs, wires, fule filter, injectors or fuel pressure regulator. I took it down to Matt Helton at S&J Chevy and he's sure it's the fuel pump (he replaced the regulator under that warranty) That's a $500 retail part! So, it has to wait another two wees so I can still buy V-day present and make another payment on this POS!

I wanted to thank Matt for all of his help, I haven't taken my truck to a mechanic EVER, because I don't trust them, they always try to rip me off. (and I can do most work myself, and save a few hundred) It was really cool to take it to someone who knew what they were doing and I didn't have to question them ripping me off! Matt you rock! (and thanks for helping me load and unload the metal mulisha street bike so I could drop my truck off! lol)

Thanks for the answers here guys!

[GFC]

do you know what kind of test they ran to determin that it was the fuel pump? Mine also went out about 4 months ago but it didn't experience the same symptoms you did upon startup. DONT you hate how noisy our fuel pumps are! In my case, i ran tests on everything but the fuel pump, determining that there was nothing left but to start flinging parts at it. out of luck, the 1st thing i flung at it was the pricy fuel pump. fixed the problem, thank God.

[matt_helton]

i know its the fuel pump because i checked the fuel pressure prior to doing the injector campaign. the KOEO fuel pressure should be around 55 psi. hers was 20 first time the key was cycled and then it quickly fell off, then 30 and it fell off, and then 40 and fell off then if finally got to 55 and it started. bad pump sinple as that.

and ryno, let me get back to you on the valve thing, dont have time right now.

[Mintychip]

On my S10, the fuel pump went out on me about 5 times, (and I would probably still be changing them), until I cut a hole in my bed and fiddled with wired one day and realized it was the connector that brings power into my pump going bad. To make a long story short, I ditched the connector and hardwired the pump in and haven't had a problem since. Anyone with S10's should check that first.

[matt_helton]

Ryno, about the sticking valves, we havnt had any of those come through here. we have had a few R motors with broken valve stems but no other related problems to speak of. the motors are pretty bullet proof with the exception of the injector problems and leaky intake manifolds, as long as they are regularly maintained.

[redline]

S-TRENDS should be LOWERED.....NOT lifted

[sweetdevil]

Should I post a picture of your G-ride???

[Bryan_D]

Wow you guys are harsh. Devo I thought you were a chevy guy? And Rhi you should post some pics of the silver bullet! Does it still have a couple different wheels on it?

[Jkrell]

The silver bullet...lol. you should have seen that truck when he first got it.....immaculate....then a lift kit and about 10 trannies later it was devosized. (all out of love devo)

Jon

[SpareChangeRacng]

No truck should EVER be lowered - eeewwww. S-10's just aren't set up for bolt on type kits. It seems you either go all out and cut the front end off, or go ranger or toyota.

[sweetdevil]

Krellwitz - You've been in the Domiican Republic too long! Devo now has a stock ext cab toyota with a dent the size of a volkswagon in the drivers side cab. The dent is more rusted than most parts of the Piece, and the broken rear window is only complimentary to the exhaust leak. But hey, it HAS been Devofied, he put the race truck intake on it! LOL

[Bryan_D]

JKrell ya Devos truck was a super nice truck when it was black and had the blower hooked up correctly.
Rhi is his chevy gone? And why the yota is this the one that he is supposed to be building? He has been a bizzo lately and wont return my IMs so I have been out of the loop with his deal.

[Jkrell]

yeah, I was there the night he picked it up, that thing was perfect. Last I heard its parked in Devins personally vehicle graveyard (along with the nova) behind Levitt's house...lol

Any yes rhi, I got to take a look at the new fine ride before I left town....cherry....that kills me that is has an exhaust leak and a broken back window...lol...at least this one gets decent gas miliage, and its a toyota so probably even dev cant kill that one......Who would have guessed Devo "chevy's for life" would be both driving and racing a toyota....lol.

Jon

[redline]

aight to shut someone up. i fixed the broken window that some **BAN ME****BAN ME****BAN ME****BAN ME****BAN ME** thought i had a better stereo than him broke. and the exhaust leak is fixed. the dent is only the size of an 89 cbr 600. the chevy is parked again awaiting another tranny. the toyota DD looks good all the way around except for the pass ext cab which is smashed. but hey for 400 bucks i can deal with a dent and 28 mpg! plus it does burn outs like a mad man.

[Bryan_D]

Find me a deal like that and I would be sporting a yota also. The heep is pissing me off and I need another ride. Hey Devo you should put some of those mock up resis and put a big [I have been warned] Volcom sticker with glass and you would be set. LOL Later Bryan

[GFC]

well well well, i just had an eventful time in ocatiio this past sat. night. if you were out there, you probubly saw me between blowsands and devils slide working on theheap. i know that i deffinitly saw a truck with #1468 on it along with some trucks sporting truck shop stickers. THANK YOU to the guy who stoped and helped get thing running long enuff to get back to camp. i can thank all of it to the upper controle arm bolts coming loose and breaking free, i'll get more into depth soon as it stops raining and i get a chance to do some damage evaluation.... it never ends does it?!?