Blazer building 101

[CanyonMan]

I have decided to trade in my 97 GMC 4x4 for a SFA Blazer. I should be getting some loot back in the trade and am wondering what are the best things to do for $2000 to start. I am thinking Deaver springs, either Bilstein 5150s or maybe SAWs if I can swing them, 33s and a rear locker to start. Of course the usual performance mods will be done but I want to see what I can do for the suspension first. Any ideas?

[Tyson]

I'd put 35's on it. . even with stock height and a tiny bit of front fender trimming they will fit and not rub. And depending on what you want to do with it I'd get the weld on steering box bracket (they like to rip off the frame)

also check out www.coloradok5.com (http://www.coloradok5.com) good forum and some nice blazers (rock crawling and prerunners)

Tyson

[ntsqd]

I posted a p/n for some Rancho (I know, but hear me out) 4" front springs on cK5.com. Thread title is something like "Spring p/n for Triaged."
These springs aren't listed in the applications section of their catalog, but they are in the numerical listings. They are their so-called "pre-rnnr" spring. If you're not going to beat on the truck hard they may be an option for you. Rate is about that of their 2" spring and has an anti braking torque rxn 1/2 leaf that is very interesting. I have a set on the front of my Sub (even though they're only supposed to be put on K5's), they ride reasonably well and they have enough travel for chase/remote pit access/tow rig duty.

The stock front damper mounts suck. Figure on front damper hoops if not an engine cage, and tabs on the 'C'' brackets.
The stock radiator mounting likes to let the radiator flop around in there if you flog it down washboard roads much. Need to either change the mounting, gusset it, or move the radiator to an engine cage. It's the upper mount that is the trouble.
If it's a 10bolt front, in particular , it needs a fuill width gusset or truss. Reportedly the housing tubes aren't all that thick.

Use wilwood 'D' compound pads or Raybestos "Brute Stop' pads on the front.

[BRBoudreaux]

Brace the steering box.

Get rid of the hideous rear shock mounts, they suck.

Ignore all the "go 1-ton or stay home" advice.

You can safely fit 35's stock with some trimming, 33's are more than happy though.

I'm currently swapping in a 9" rearend to mine, I'm sure I'll more details later.

And hang on CK5 for more K5 advice.

[ntsqd]

BRB, are the K5 rear mounts any different than the Sub rear mounts ?
mebbe I should take this over there......

[Ramsey_ElWardani]

I run 37" Goodyear GSA's on my '90 with stock springs, AutoFab front glass fenders, and no triming in the back. Everything clears with no problems.

[K5Blazer]

woohoo another blazer guy. If you wait another week I can post some pictures of how I swapped the stock rear springs up front and put cross over steering, and new sway aways on up front. Should pull around 14" of travel for under $1k.

O yeah 35's are a must, watch out for a G-80 option code, gov-loc rear diff, they are known to blow up. I blew mine up pretty good. The stock rear axle can work if you run an aftermarket carrier, such as a detroit or an arb air locker. The front axle is good for up to about 37's depending on how heavy your right foot is. I love my blazer, just need to finish the spring swap so I can get it running again.

[Dave_G]

Man, all this Blazer talk is getting me depressed. I sold mine to Dave Ashley almost two years ago and have regreted it ever since. It was a nice one with a 400 motor and all the goodies. Now it just sits in the Enduro compound rotting away in the sun.

I sure miss that thing.

Dave

[CanyonMan]

I guess I'll be trimming some fenders for 35s then. Had to do some trimming on my 97 to fit even 33s, but hey priorities right? :-) The crossover steering and steering brace will definitely need to be done, brace first though I think. Not sure I understand about the shock mounts in the front. Pics on those would help. I know the rears suck cause me and my buddy have had to weld in new shock mounts in the rear of 2 Blazers so far. AM looking at trussing the front 10 bolt and replacing the rear with either a 9 inch or 14 bolt, but am looking at the 9" for weight savings. Will a 9" survive prerun/mud/rock crawling? None of them extreme but definitely will get abused. Any ideas on shocks, Brands/travel/reservoir or not?

Thanks for all the input. I am really looking forward to building this and kickin my buddies a@@ with his Blazer.

[michael]

This was a nice setup for the rear:

http://mkparker.com/goose/shock_mount2.jpg
I have lots of pics of mostly 2wd Blazers on my site. If ya wanna check out some 'glass etc. That picture came from John Bitting's Blazer before the "build" commenced. I would pass on the 14 bolt and go with a 9". Also, check out this thread that took me 20 minutes to find!

Older 4WD Chevys (http://www.race-dezert.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=shop&Number=21580&page=&vi ew=&sb=&o=&fpart=1&vc=1)

[BRBoudreaux]

Hey ntsqd,

Yes, they are the same crappy ones as on the Subs.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Will a 9" survive prerun/mud/rock crawling? None of them extreme but definitely will get abused. Any ideas on shocks, Brands/travel/reservoir or not?

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on who you ask. Most people around here will likely say yes, while the cheapskate Chevy Kool-Aid crowd will tell you 14ff.

I have only done very little on converting this 9 inch for my K5, but I can tell you right now that the spring perches will have to be torched off and new ones put on since the width difference is 3". Also, you will have to think about which way you want to go, convert the front to 5 lug or the 9 to 6. You can convert them to disc very easily using GM calipers, of course you won't have a parking brake. But if you want to wait, I know someone who is going to try to build an E-brake system using GM calipers.

[CanyonMan]

That post definitely helped. Thanks for finding it Michael. It seems like the ideas on that post are pretty much what I am looking for. Deavers, good shocks, necessary steering changes, and a trussed 9" with locker for the rear. Eventually glass and more power will be added, but I'd rather have it perform and be fun than look and sound fast. Thanks for all the tips everyone.

Anybody have an idea on what a set of Deavers front and rear will run?

[michael]

You might PM Erik, aka drtdevil93. He works there I believe. Here is his profile:
drtdevil93 (http://www.race-dezert.com/ubbthreads/showprofile.php?Cat=&amp;User=drtdevil93&amp;Number=21608&amp; Board=shop&amp;what=showflat&amp;page=&amp;view=&amp;sb=&amp;o=&amp;fpart= 1&amp;vc=1)

[ntsqd]

Guess when I finally get the High Performance Yellow dampers that I killed at last year's B1K off of there I'll find out how bad.

I would be very, very tempted to make adapters that would allow me to bolt the front 10 bolt's stub axles to the 9" housing. Then get some of the drive plates from the common full time 4wd trucks and have drive axles made. That solves the bolt pattern issue, puts rotors on the rear easily, and gets you away from flanged axle shafts all in one step.

[K5Blazer]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I would be very, very tempted to make adapters that would allow me to bolt the front 10 bolt's stub axles to the 9" housing. Then get some of the drive plates from the common full time 4wd trucks and have drive axles made. That solves the bolt pattern issue, puts rotors on the rear easily, and gets you away from flanged axle shafts all in one step.


[/ QUOTE ]

Are you talking about making a Full floater? I think you can get a full floater kit for a 9". As for bolt pattern issues between the 9" and stock front axle why not run ford rotors up front or get the stock rear shafts redrilled for 6 lug? It seems like that that would be pretty easy to do.

I think the deavers would be a very good upgrade. I found a pretty easy way to get 14" or so of travel out of the front end. Only bad thing is that the springs im using are going to move my front axle forward 2". But the wheelbase could always be longer on a K5.

[ntsqd]

People get into the "If someone doesn't make a kit then it can't be done" mentality when that simply isn't true. If you don't understand how to make up such a conversion then the project is beyond you at the present. Doesn't mean it will always be so. That's what this board is about. But then I revel in making parts that weren't designed by the same company work together.

Yes, you can BUY such a kit. That wasn't my intention. AFAIK those kits all come 5 on 5.5" I don't know what the application for the bearings is, I don't know what stock wheel hub interchanges with their part (assuming one does), I don't know what application their rotor is (&amp; I think it has to be machined to fit anyway).

By building the adapters you're now running the same stub spindles at all 4 corners, same wheel bearings, same rotors, same wheel hubs, could even run the same brake calipers. Best of all, now those parts are all stock parts you can get from any parts house or junkyard. The only non-stock parts would be the adapters themselves and the drive axles.
If you're worried about breaking a drive axle, set the diff up with the diff (not the pinion) centered and order 3 axles of the same length.

[BRBoudreaux]

Here's a DIY full float for the 9 inch.........

Grab hubs and spindles off a D44.

Have a custom adapter built (only shop that I know that knows it is up in Canada, but I've talked to one of the CK5 gurus and he can do the same thing for less than 3 figures). These adapters are welded onto the axle tubes, then the spindles are bolted on. Warn has a D60 drive slug that fits the 44 hubs at $200 or there abouts, then get custom shafts cut, $300 on up and wala; you've got a full float 9 inch with a 6 lug pattern.

Cons to this is that correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the kits from a place like Stock Car Products is $400, then another $300 for shafts or there abouts. Add that onto what you spent for the axle itself, I paid $130 for mine. With the DIY method above, it looks like the cost is about the same and here's the kicker. If you break a shaft, you have to pull everything to the spindle to get it out cause the shafts have to be tapered to fit the spindle.

Of course you have to add in all the other costs. I'm lucky since I know someone with a plasma cutter, I'm torching off the shock mounts and spring pads this weekend.

[ntsqd]

You don't need the WARN parts. The OE's provided us with the right parts and you can find them in junkyards. They're splined to fit the D44/GM10bolt wheel hubs and outer axle shafts. Look for the trucks that have the NP203 that haven't been converted to part-time 4wd. You want the cover and the drive 'cog' inside. I believe the Jeep Quadra-Trac parts are also the same.

[Bob_Sheaves]

ntsqd,

Yep, the Jeep parts are the same. Make sure you get the correct snaprings to lock the spline drive to the axle shaft-personally, I'd use full circle style lock rings and machine the groove a bit wider to accomodate them-a bit thicker, but they won't "spread" like the OE 44 stuff under side load (tube flex binding the axle shaft inside the spline drive.

Best as always,

Bob

[CanyonMan]

have to admit there will definitely be a learning curve for me on building the Blazer. My current truck is my first, everything before that was muscle cars. I am definitely not afraid of fabbing parts myself or with help as I prefer to "build" my vehicles than have them built. I am pretty much decided on the 9" for the rear and am wondering about one for the front also. Have seen a few Jeeps in town with a 9" conversion front and back so may look a little closer at one next time I see them on the trail. Anybody posting with a SFA blazer live in or around the Tucson, Az area? I could definitely meet to swap ideas and look at different trucks. Let me know.

Thank again for all the ideas on info.

[K5Blazer]

There are a few guys on coloradk5.com in tuscon. All of those guys are rock crawlers though.

[CanyonMan]

I been thinking of joining that site for some time now, even before thinking of buying a blazer. Rock crawlers gotta be stout too. Lotta stress on steering parts and drivetrain.

[BRBoudreaux]

Here's the reasoning why; and I'll go ahead and tell ya that I'm totally clueless on this aspect of this guy's buildup:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
For the 19-spline outer I could use cheap drive flanges from the wrecker that were used in Jeep Wagoneers and Chevys that had a front Dana 44 with full time 4x4. The disadvantage was the splines were coarse, which meant they were machined deeper into the axle shaft.

[/ QUOTE ]

The whole article can be found here. (http://www.bc4x4.com/tech/2002/ff9/) I'm totally clueless as if using the Warn stuff over the stock stuff would be beneficial.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I am pretty much decided on the 9" for the rear and am wondering about one for the front also.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stick with what you already have up front. One of those custom front 9" inch axles are going to cost a chunk of change and from everything I have seen, the D44 or 10 bolt up front is good enough, just beef the thing up a little.

[CanyonMan]

I will definitely be using the stock front axle to start, just trussing it and better axles and such to start. A 9" will come into play WHEN I do eventually break it.

That article was great. I am definitely interested in trying to build a 9" FF. How bout pics of people with modded suspensions and maybe a brief description?

[ntsqd]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Here's the reasoning why; and I'll go ahead and tell ya that I'm totally clueless on this aspect of this guy's buildup:
In reply to: </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />

For the 19-spline outer I could use cheap drive flanges from the wrecker that were used in Jeep Wagoneers and Chevys that had a front Dana 44 with full time 4x4. The disadvantage was the splines were coarse, which meant they were machined deeper into the axle shaft.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Generally the strength of a shaft is based on the OD of it's least diameter. In the case of splines that would be the diameter tangent to the spline's root radius. More teeth = smaller teeth for a given shaft diameter. That means the minor diameter will be larger when more/smaller teeth are used.
Also, older coarse splines tend to be square cornered rather than the later fine splines which are Involute. Involute splines are inherently stronger and are less of a stress riser.

I'd have to pull it apart to confirm, but I'd swear that the outer stubs in my Sub's front axle have more splines than 19.

Learned today that the WARN drive axle outer splines are the same as the 30 spline Dana 44 &amp; Dana 60 axles.

[BRBoudreaux]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I'd have to pull it apart to confirm, but I'd swear that the outer stubs in my Sub's front axle have more splines than 19.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm far from being knowledgable on the 10B and D44 front ends, but I seem to remember that there are two different spline counts, 19 and 30. The whole issue has confused me to no end.

[K5Blazer]

Im almost a 100% positive that the front outers on the 10B and D44 are 19 spline. I can count it tommorrow when i put my locking hubs back on. I think that is one of the reasons that the outers break easy.

[ntsqd]

Could be, then again my Sub is a 3/4t. Would the General have done something so weird as to make two different outers ? That'd be more like Ford to do that.

[K5Blazer]

No, the 3/4 tons are the same as the 1/2 tons. I also know that there is two styles of locking hubs available for D44's or 10 B's. They are the internal or the extrernal style locking hubs. I didnt get a chance to check the splines today but I will check it in a couple days when I got the put my locking hubs on.

[ntsqd]

Contributing to the further degeneration of this thread, I had the chance to count a Scout II D44 outer stub axle. 27 splines.

[K5Blazer]

Heres a picture of my new front spring hanger to accomodate the 4" longer front springs. I think the springs are going to be too soft for the desert but I will see once I get the shocks mounted.
http://www.socalbigdawgs.com/albums/zcarczar/abc.jpg

[drtdevil93]

i just finished up doing a deaver long travel frontend on a old dodge (very similar frontend). if anyone is interested in pictures, i could go take some. i made a new front hanger (old ones were busted up) which relocated front pivot 1" forward, custom spring, custom shackle, moved the shackle mount back about 4", and made a new body mount. the setup is good for 14" of travel (6 up, 8 down), an excellent ride, and DROOP!! im doing some shock hoops next week for some king shocks. i should have pictures up friday.

erik

[ntsqd]

What's the burly tab on the lower bumper crossbar about ?

[K5Blazer]

Its for a d-ring shackle. I like to get stuck when we go off roading so I figured i should mount some recovery points up front since the factory tow hooks dont fit anymore with the longer front springs.

[BRBoudreaux]

PICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[drtdevil93]

okay okay. im going to the shop right now to feed the dog.

erik

[drtdevil93]

front from side

[drtdevil93]

front hanger

[drtdevil93]

relocated shackle mount, body mount, and shackle

[drtdevil93]

sideview of mounts and springs.

setup is good for 14". these dodges have a messed up front driveline, so ill have to limit it to 12". the dodge frontend is very similar to a k5 frontend, except for the frame bending way out right where the shackle needs to go. i made the upper shackle mount 1/2" wider than normal, and spaced the spring-shackle mount over a 1/2" to accomodate. i have more pics of the new shock hoops, shock mounts, and bumpstops. ill have to post them later.

erik

[toddz]

Is that a delrin bushing on the front of that Blazer spring? I'm thinking delrin is a little too hard for leaf spring bushings if you want any flex out of them, but I'm not sure? What do you recommend, Erik?

Todd Z.

[PBR]

so here is a question for all you blazer guys:

is it possible to build a 4x4 blazer prerunner/chase truck that will work as good as bronco with the ttb front end with lets say an autofab 15" travel kit? i am looking to buy/build a 3 or 4 seat mild prerunner that is reliable and can go anywhere, the problem with the bronco is that first off all it is a ford and the second problem is that it is going to cost me an arm and a leg to build one that is going to work. i use to have a 2wd blazer prerunner that was really nice but i had to sell it to buy a commuter when i was in school, i would love to get it back but what ever, that truck was great but i can't find anything like it that is built well, and if it is built well it is tooooo pricy!!!

any thoughts or ideas???

[drtdevil93]

i like urethane bushings all the way around. this truck had rubber in the spring eyes, and urethane in the shackle mount. we have tried delrin in the shackle mount, and it worked just fine. in the spring i dont recommend it. like you said, too stiff.

erik

[BRBoudreaux]

Work as good yes, maybe not as fast but still good. That's just my rookie pro-straight axle opinion. http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/grin.gif

When I was out covering the VORRA races this year, I made it a mission to study up on the straight axle stuff. I talked to one guy in a Dodge for about 30 minutes one day, he basically gave me a lesson about setting up the leaf spring front, plus talking to drtdevil has helped.

While I didn't get to talk to him, I watched Don Moss's straight axle, coil sprung big Bronco with a keen eye. He runs King Bypasses up front. When he launched off the jump at Prairie City, I would be surprised at his landings. He nosed in just a tad bit, but there was no bounce. Everything settled as soon tires hit dirt and he was off again. One guy I know that raced against him in Baja was impressed with the setup.

Me thinks that if you dedicate some quality time to the shocks, you can have a perfect ride.

The two quick things that I think you are going to have to work on is the rear shock mounts and the rearend it's self. The upper shock mounts on the rear just plain suck and any kind of off road time is going to tear them up.

The rearends are weak. There's a lot of 10 bolt and 12 bolt rears out there. They have somewhat of a bad rep and I've wrecked two 12 bolts (one was my fault, the other was the shop's) and K5Blazer has wrecked a 10 bolt, but you can see he driving style is a little whacked http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I know Scoob Maloney was running 10 bolts front and rear in his Whiplash Class 3 truck and from the info I got, he had a Warn full float kit on the rear, along with chro-mo shafts, and that's probably what saved him. The primitive thinking in the older Chevy off road crowd is to get a 14 bolt fullfloater, but those things are boat anchors.

Me personally, I'm a 9 inch guy. I'm currently working on one to put into my Blazer. The shafts from the 31 spline model are just a hair smaller than a 14 bolt FF axle and way lighter. The two issues with the 9 inch going into an older Chevy is the spring pads which are too wide, they need to be moved in about an inch a piece and of course the shock mounts are screwed. Another issue is the front of the diff probably takes up a good inch or two of the driveshaft, so if you just throw it in and go and bottom out, chances of a driveshaft through the transfer case would probably be high. It's nice to be able to carry the axle housing around in one hand compared to the two needed for a Chevy 1/2 housing and I don't know how much, but the 14 is a lot heavier.

Even though I'd like to go TTB up front, probably won't happen. But in the end, getting a Blazer setup up for desert duty (just don't do impressions of Robby Gordon) I think is about the easiest and cheapest way to go.

[ntsqd]

I've seen 14bff''s quoted at 350 lbs dressed with drum brakes. Takes two to drag a complete one across the shop floor. That's heavy enough for me.

I see the truck 10b &amp; 12b's as having two main weakness', C-Clips and lack of inner bearing race. Both 'features' are economizing methods, not superior axle building ideas.
Having a hardened surface (for the outer wheel bearing rollers to ride on) right at the edge of the zone of maximum stress just doesn't seem like a winning combo to me. Going to some sort of floated wheel hub would pay big dividends in axle life.

B4 I put any money or time into one though I would calculate if the tube OD &amp; wall are up to the job w/o bending.

[SpeedMetal]

I don't post very often, but being that I am a Blazer owner, I have to put my two cents in on this one. I have a 72 Blazer with a radius arm/panhard bar setup on it and with some tuning time into it now, it works pretty well. I'm not saying it's better than a ttb setup, but I get 14" out of it with no bumpsteer, and has been extremely reliable. I think that solid axle (front) suspensions are looked down upon so much, that no one really ever puts the effort into trying to make them work (except LeDuc). If all goes well, we'll have a truck with a similar setup to race MDR with hopefully by the end of the summer. We'll see how it goes...

[K5Blazer]

I run a 14 bolt semi float in the rear, basically GM's equivalent to a Dana 60 semi float rear axle. I did manage to break the housing on one. The perches were welded on wrong and they crystalized the tubes, I bought the axle used with the perches already moved. Im now on my 3rd rear end and this one seems to be working fine. I still would like a full floater rear axle, but im going to stick with this one for now. I do know that I need to truss it if its going to survive for any length of time.

I also got my front springs installed, havent mounted the shocks yet but I did get to go flex it out to check clearances, found out that my 3" extended front driveshaft is too short and I need a long slip shaft. My front brakelines are also too short and are fully stretched at full droop, Im probably going to redo those and go with a centerdrop line with a T like the rear axle setups. I also need to find a set of poly bushings, these bushings (basically delrin) are too stiff and I dont like how they twist the spring up when the front axle gets crossed up. Oh well, live and let learn. Here is a picture of the front end flexed out on a giant rock by my house, I know before I couldnt get anywhere close to making it up that rock.

http://www.socalbigdawgs.com/albums/zcarczar/abn.jpg

[UndercoverFab]

you can take alot of weight off of a 14 bolt by swapping to disc brakes, a good 90 pounds i`d say, its also a very inexpensive and simple swap, just get front 3/4ton rotors from a late 70`s chevy, remove hub/drum assembly from axle press new studs throguh rotors and into the 14bolt hub and your pretty much done, besides welding on some 20$ caliper brackets and getting some 3/4 ton front calipers (78-79 eldorado calipers if you want a parking brake), 6 lug anf 5 lug hubs are available for these axles to from the aftermarket.
your left with a strong axle that doesnt weigh much more then a 1/2ton axle with drums, is dirt simple to setup since it doesnt use shims and the pinion is removable from the front, very cheap to lock up (detroit locker costs about 250$ brand new) and every junkyard has spare parts for it. you can also gain back about an inch of ground clearance by cutting the lip off the center section.

i`m not telling you to use one but with a little bit of money put into it you could have a very strong axle.

[PBR]

speedmetal - do you have the orange '72 that goes out to rialto??? if that is you can you post some pics of it? i also heard it is up for sale, if so how much are you asking???

thanks.

[Ramsey_ElWardani]

He is using the "small" GM 14-bolt that has a 9 1/2-inch ring gear diameter. It is a Semi-floater. Your talking about the Full-floater with a 10 1/2-inch-diameter ring gear, the "big" 14-bolt GM rearend looks much like a Dana 70. It was used under 1973 and later3/4-tons and up.

Do you know of someone in the aftermarket that makes a 5 on 51/2" hub for the Full-floater?

[BRBoudreaux]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I don't post very often, but being that I am a Blazer owner, I have to put my two cents in on this one. I have a 72 Blazer with a radius arm/panhard bar setup on it and with some tuning time into it now, it works pretty well.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I have pics of it, that's a nice truck http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/grin.gif

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
B4 I put any money or time into one though I would calculate if the tube OD &amp; wall are up to the job w/o bending.


[/ QUOTE ]

I just got done having an "incident" with two 10 bolts and my chop saw a few weeks ago and while I didn't measure, I think the tube thickness on them were .250". Pretty beefy, but still I think any axle that's going to be seeing some loads needs to be trussed. I know Maloney had trusses on his, but they were those cheap aftermarket ones and from what little I know, he never had a problem with them.

[K5Blazer]

Ramsey, I believe Grady off road in Northern California makes the hubs. They are freaking expensive as hell though, but they are machined out of a solid piece of 6061 aluminum I believe.

[Ryno]

Ramsey-

Grady's sells the 6 lug hubs for $259. No bad if you asked me. Take another $300 for rear disks, and a 14ff sounds better and better. You can find them on ebay for under $300. Gradys is in Sacramento area 916-638-5843.

[K5Blazer]

The problem I see with the 14 bolt is the lack of aftermarket differential availability. There is no selectable lockers available for it, but I doubt that would matter in a dezert truck. There is only a open, a factory locking diff, an auburn i think, and a detroit available for it. No spool available for it, only option there is to weld the spyder gears up. Where as a Dana 60 or 9 inch has more locking diff options than you can shake a stick at.

Of course the 14 bolt is way over built, I doubt any of our trucks could break the internal parts on the diff. That leaves the housing to be the only "weak" part. I bet with trussing that rear axle would be virtually impossible to break.

Also what fiberglass front fenders do you guys recommend for a blazer? My stock fenders are falling apart because I cut so much out of them to clear the tires.

[ntsqd]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I just got done having an "incident" with two 10 bolts and my chop saw a few weeks ago and while I didn't measure, I think the tube thickness on them were .250". Pretty beefy, but still I think any axle that's going to be seeing some loads needs to be trussed. I know Maloney had trusses on his, but they were those cheap aftermarket ones and from what little I know, he never had a problem with them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess my concern is to not put a bunch of effort into something w/o first looking to see if they're worth starting with. If the 14bff is any indication, the 10 &amp; 12 bolts probably are worth taking a serious look at. Especially since they fit like stock.

BTW, I used part of a 14bff tube to make a bearing case for a crawler style swing-away tire carrier. That was some of the hardest to machine steel I've ever used. I know there are much harder to machine steel alloys out there, but for something as simple as an axle housing tube to keep wiping the edge off a cemented carbide lathe tool regardless of the speed/feed/depth-of-cut combo really amazed me.
The 14bff tubes are not a constant wall thickness. At the stub spindle they are about 5/16" thick, but at the diff housing they are slightly over 1/2"

[SpeedMetal]

Yes, that's mine....here's a few pics. It may be up for sale in the next week or so. PM me for details.

[SpeedMetal]

Pic 2

[SpeedMetal]

Pic 3

[SpeedMetal]

Last one...

[PBR]

for glass fenders i would check out the autofab ones, if they are to wide check out the trailer products or hannaman fenders.

[Stephen]

OK, couple of things:
1: don't spend much time messing with the 19 spline outers, I know it looks cool on the surface but do you really want to run a 19 spline rear end with a minor dia. of about 1.1"? We break this stuff on the front end, much less on a rear. There's a reason good stuff costs good money, the warn kit used a big spindle with big bearings and could fit a 35 spline shaft if the diff could accomodate it. This is all good stuff but it's not cheap to build. if you want a cheap full floater, pay the weight penalty and use a 14FF or D60FF. Or, cut the ends off and run a semi float shaft in one of the above rear ends.
2: Ollie, i think you're going to want better steering than the leaf springs will give you. If you're picky about it, there's not much you can do with a leaf spring front to get good travel and good steering at the same time. Convert to a 3 link front or a radius arm front and run a coilover. For the rear, you can put on a nice long spring and then figure out how to get shocks on it just like everyone else does. Basically, do you go through the floor or not.
A solid axle K5 can definitly be a nice prerunner and can run similar travel numbers as a TTB 4x4 but it will behave a bit different than IFS.
You're giving me the urge to build another K5 but with 3 kids, I need a long travel suburban/tahoe now.
We set up a lot of K5's, if you have somemore questions, let me know. We do mostly rock crawling type stuff but it's fun to run fast no matter what you have. ORD web page (http://www.offroaddesign.com)

[CanyonMan]

Just want to thank everyone for all the input. I just got the title to my brothers Blazer signed over to me today. He's gonna be going on a 1 1/2 year vacation in Bagdad doing combat vehicle recovery. My mission is to make his truck bad a@@ while he is away and give it back to him when he gets back. Any more input as to what to do with the Blazers would still be helpful. I am also wondering how much a full set of Deavers would run. I don't want to lift it more than 2 -4 inches to clear 35's and get good travel (looking for around 12-14 front and 16-18 rear at least).

[BRBoudreaux]

You won't have to raise it up much to clear 35's. I run 35's on my '87 and the springs are still the stock wore out ones. Might be a good idea to lose the wheel wells though.

[CanyonMan]

I am pretty sure I can get 35's on it without too much metal massaging, but I am mainly concerned with the flex and articulation of the vehicle. Since it will be an all around truck, it needs to handle rocks, the occasional mudhole (I'm in Arizona, mud is very limited) and the ever popular desert bashing. With good springs, it will get the height for the rocks, the articulation for rocks and desert, and open up the option for posible 37's later on if my bro goes that route.

[CanyonMan]

Anybody know how to get the two halves of the front driveshaft apart on an 88 Blazer? Apparently my brother never fixed the busted bolts from our last 4x4 trip and I went ahead and pulled the driveshaft out to fix everything. Figured since I have it out I might as well disassemble it and make it like new .

Thanks

[UndercoverFab]

on the end that bolts to the front axle theirs a screw on seal, unscrew it and they`ll come apart.

[CanyonMan]

Thanks! Now all I have to do is get out the broken bolts from the front diff.

[CanyonMan]

Hey K5. Have you had a chance to take your spring conversion out to the desert yet? I am to the point now where I need to do some serious work to my bro's Blazer. Seems it wasn't in as good a shape as it looked when he gave it to mee. Needs new shocks all the way around, rebuild the entire brake system, replace ALL the bushings, brake hoses, complete tune-up, you name it, it needs it. I want to buy new shocks first and am looking to get the maximum travel out of stock componenets. If I can do the rear leaf to front swap soon like you did, I'll wait to get shocks till then. Wait kind of shocks did you wind up with, what the travel, and how do they work with the springs?

Thanks!

Pete

[K5Blazer]

The springs work pretty good so far, I need to rebuild the shocks cause they leaked and no longer have a nitrogen charge so they are too soft. But it handles great, could probably be a tad bit stiffer though, and i would also like to be able to run a military rap front spring. The setup will swing 16" of travel or so, I have it limited down to about 13" because of brakelines limiting my travel, but when I build the new frame I got im going to try and run 56's out of a 3/4 ton truck in the front and try and swing 18" of travel. The rear suspension right now sucks so I havent been able to test it too hard but ive jumped it a few times and gone through some big whoops and it soaks it all up no problem. for the rear im going to run 63" long rear springs off of a late model 1/2 ton chevy, hope to pull somewhere in the neighborhood of 20" travel with some bypass shocks, i figure that will get me where i want to be suspension wise and take me anywhere i want to go at just about any speed i want.

[Tyson]

Hey Jason, long time no talk. Hey I sold my F150 and now Im driving a 79 short bed SFA gmc truck. How does your front drive shaft deal with the 16" as you were cycling it? I need to get some travel out of the front but dont have the cash yet to go with a full set of deavers. I had totally forgot about your rear spring swap I'll have to check that out.

T

[SpeedMetal]

How does your steering work with that much travel? Do you have is still running paralell to the leafs, or do you have a crossover setup?

[subrunner]

[ QUOTE ]
The springs work pretty good so far, I need to rebuild the shocks cause they leaked and no longer have a nitrogen charge so they are too soft. But it handles great, could probably be a tad bit stiffer though, and i would also like to be able to run a military rap front spring. The setup will swing 16" of travel or so, I have it limited down to about 13" because of brakelines limiting my travel, but when I build the new frame I got im going to try and run 56's out of a 3/4 ton truck in the front and try and swing 18" of travel. The rear suspension right now sucks so I havent been able to test it too hard but ive jumped it a few times and gone through some big whoops and it soaks it all up no problem. for the rear im going to run 63" long rear springs off of a late model 1/2 ton chevy, hope to pull somewhere in the neighborhood of 20" travel with some bypass shocks, i figure that will get me where i want to be suspension wise and take me anywhere i want to go at just about any speed i want.

[/ QUOTE ]
K5, does that spring swap give any lift in the front or does your truck sit stock height? I run 36's on my Suburban with the front glass and i'm going to 37's so i need something like 3-4" of lift.

[SANDlessNSeattle]

When using the 52's up front you get about 41/2'' of lift so you should be ok with the 37's and the glass I'm getting ready to do the same deal on my 1/2 ton shorty , I plan on the 52's front / 62's on the rear, Also plan to run glass, then run 37's or 40's.....Not much dezert up here but I'm still building it with some down home prerunner style cause I just can't let go of my deZert roots...... http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[K5Blazer]

Dont forget that with the 52's your front axle gets move forward 2" and you need to do something with the steering thats better than stock. Ive been doing a little bit of research and a few people have moved their shackle hangers in the back forward 4" to get a better shackle angle, well instead of doing that im thinking of running a 3/4 ton pack that ive made thats 4" longer in the back half of the spring to get me the shackle angle I want and give me even more travel than what Ive got now.

I run 36" Super swamper IROKS when I go rock crawling and I clear fine, I think if I had my bumpstops set up a little better I could clear a 40" tire pretty easily with little fender trimming.

[SANDlessNSeattle]

K5 I have see your pictures at other sites and i like your flex shots on that rock...did you extend you shackle that's what others are doing.....i think they are using the +1'''s from ORD I'm not sure yet how I'm gonna do all mine yet i'm still in the parts collection stage.....

[K5Blazer]

I extended the shackle initially but later put the stock shackle back on because i made the bolt hole the wrong size up top. I did have more droop with the longer shackle, but I think with the 56's up front out of the 3/4 ton is going to be the hot setup. I just need to get myself a pack so I can try it out. I know the 52's work pretty well with the SAW's that i have in the front now, I think with a tad stiffer spring and a better shackle angle it will work awesome.

[SANDlessNSeattle]

MMMMMMM now you got me thinking dude.....keep me posted ......The only thing that comes to mind is a possible toooo much movement to the point that the u joints start to bind.........

[K5Blazer]

Right now its working fine with a modified stock CV and the stock 1310 at the diff. I might try goin with a higher angle shaft in the front when i get my new one made.

[subrunner]

So, will the 56's still move the axle foreward 2"?

[K5Blazer]

Yes, they have the same centering pin to front spring eye length as the 52's, but the back half of the spring is 4" longer. This creating a nice kicked back shackle angle with little work.

[Jerry Zaiden]

Here are a few pictures of a Blazer one of the guys at the shop owns. It has Deavers all the way around. Full cage, killer stereo, seats 4, and he loves Glamis, lol.

[Jerry Zaiden]

Pic2

[Jerry Zaiden]

Pic3

[Jerry Zaiden]

Pic4

[subrunner]

Damn! That's a nice steering arm(rest of the truck too). Who built it?

[K5Blazer]

Jerry, Is there any chance you could get some more specs on the truck like front wheel travel, rear wheel travel, and if the wheelbase is still stock? Also, do you know if he has problems with the pitman arm contacting the driverside spring on full compression?

[ALEX]

Jerry, could you get some "overall" pics? I'm getting a blazer in a month or to off a friend, i'm trying to get ideas...
Thanks

[Jerry Zaiden]

This Blazer started 10 years ago. It started way back in the day at BMP fabrication in Costa Mesa, CA. This is when Jason ( my partner at Camburg) was the fabricator over there. it got national springs and dual FOX shocks.
Since then Blas Romero started working there. Welll as time went by we started Camburg and our friend came to work for us. Over the years Blas has built this Blazer to is liking for Glamis.

1989 4x4 Chevy Blazer

Specs,
Front and rear springs DEAVER
Shocks front-- FOX
shocks rear -- Sway-A-Way 18" 3 tube by pass.
Steering --custom heim steering
Motor chevy 350 minor work done to it,
Tires BFG 35" projects.
rear end ford 9"
Full cage
Beard seats,
Full stereo with ORIAN amps (it is really loud)


I will get more information next week. Wheel travel, etc...

[subrunner]

Cool! Thanks. Is it a DD? I'd like to take a look at it in person one day.

[JONES PERFORMANCE]

looks good, makes it hard for me to decide which way to go with my 79 blazer. have been tossing around the idea of ditching the 4 wheel drive and putting in some a-arms and linking the rear. maybe just a-arm the front and go with deavers in the rear, kinda dont want to take up all the space inside, want to be able to put a bench seat in the back like stock.

[CanyonMan]

Hey K5

I am starting work on my brothers Blazer finally. I am wondering how your front spring sap is doing and a kind of update on it. I have a buddy with an 82 that is interested in doing this also.

What have you done for the reat suspension to date? My brother cut his budget almost in half so I am thiniking of doing either longer factory rear springs (not sure from what vehicle) or extended rear shackles that will give the truck around 4" lift. Also, what shocks are you running now and what are the lenghts? I am thinking of picking up some bypasses off our friendly RDC classifeds but want to wait till I know the lenght I need.

Any feedback is welcome as work will be starting on it soon.

Thanks!

[K5Blazer]

Spring swap is working great, lots of plush travel, works absolutely awesome. I think these front springs would work awesome with some bypasses. I have some 14" travel SAW's on the front and they work good, could probably use a longer shock though, i use all of the travel available on it right now.

For the rear im going to run 63's out of a late model 1/2 ton chevy. Should have me swinging somewhere around 20" of travel. Im going to run bypasses with these.

[Project1500]

K5 are you talking about running the 3 leaf, leaf springs off a 88-98 chevy on the rear of your blazer? If so there is no way you are going to get 20" of travel outta them. Try maximum 9" with only 3" of that being compression.

[K5Blazer]

Yeah I am, Im not going to set them up in tension setup, Im going to set the shackle up in a compression setup. We run the same springs on the back of my dad's rock crawler and his truck works pretty damn good for bombing through the dezert with POS Rancho shocks and 40" tires. I think on his truck we pull somewhere around 16" with the shocks limiting us. I have a buddy running 57" F-150 springs in the back of his blazer and he was pulling 19" with it limited because the springs were nearly maxed out, and his truck works great in the dezert.

[SANDlessNSeattle]

Hey K5 are you running 52's or have you stepped upto the 56's yet???

[K5Blazer]

Im still running the 52's i havent had the time to swap the 56's yet. If I find a set it will be a bolt on affair if I can get bushings that will work right away.

[John_Bitting]

My blazer is back under way again full bore and is looking insane. I would like to squash all the rumors that " I am out of money". This could not be further from the real truth. I will have some pics of it shortly after Primm, it will still be a 4 seater, 4 linked rear, a-armed front FOX coilover, bypass and airbump per corner. JD Fabrication ( his website) (http://www.jdfabrication.com) is building my rear trailing arms for the project and will be doing all the final welding. Patelli built the small block and it should be nice and quick.

[John_Bitting]

Some of the new goods.

http://www.race-dezert.com/wwwthreads/files/99469-robbywheeltire.JPG

[John_Bitting]

Mas

http://www.race-dezert.com/wwwthreads/files/99470-frontfoxshocks.JPG

[John_Bitting]

Last one of blazer being moved.


http://www.race-dezert.com/wwwthreads/files/99471-completeblazer.JPG

[ALEX]

Wow i love blazers. I'm lookin at buying a friends 1990 fullsize Jimmy, are there any differences between a 4x jimmy and a K5? other than the badge on the grill that is? differnt axles? spring rates?

John, you're blazer looks like it'll be great fun once it's finished!

[motoxscott]

Looks good Juan !!!

I really like the hubs you got too http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/smile.gif

- Scott

[BRBoudreaux]

The K5 is 4x4. There is no difference between the Blazer and Jimmy except for the badging. All the same pretty much, except the Chevy grills are prettier http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ALEX]

Yes, the chevy grills do look better, but after the front clip gets updated to a fiberglass 89-98 p/u it'll look just fine http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[BRBoudreaux]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, the chevy grills do look better, but after the front clip gets updated to a fiberglass 89-98 p/u it'll look just fine http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

They do, but I'm thinking of just staying old school, there's 'glass hoods and fenders available even for that stuff..........

[ALEX]

good point, i am very partial to the old skool look as well. I'm sure i could easily swap out the grills too...

[ntsqd]

I'll go on record as disliking all of the so-called "conversion glass" that I've seen. I say keep the original body lines or go get all new sheetmetal/glass, don't try to 'blend' them.
Besides the drooped center hood for the early-mid 70's body is way cool looking.

[CanyonMan]

Thanks for the update on your Blazer K5. It sounds like that is the way to go with my bro's Blazer since he has cut the budget almost in half. Right now I put $500 just in getting the Blazer safe to drive (Brakes seatbelts, brakelines, shocks). I am going to press him for more loot soon and am wondering what your expense was to do the swap for the front springs and get the lift for the rear minus cost of shocks. This will probably be his next purchase so I am trying to get a ballpark figure. I am guessing around a grand at this point but am wondering if that is realistice or not.

Keep up the great work and John B post more pics of your Blazer too when ya can. Also, how bout some of ya post pics of your Blazers or Jimmys in action. That would be great too.

Later!

[SpeedMetal]

This is my favorite shot of my blazer from ROR. Photo from prerunners.com. ROR rules!

[DIRTALLIANCE]

How are you measuring your wheel travel? Are you talking about articulation or the axle going straight up &amp; straight down with the axle remaining horizontal? any pics of suspension droop shots?

[K5Blazer]

Im measuring my wheel travel straight up and down, I know when it articulates without the limit straps and bump stops on i start hitting the pitman arm and over extending brakes lines.

I have some crappy droop shots I took before I had the hoops done and the limit straps on. As you can see it is articulated, but the suspension hits the straps hard when it is straight up and down. I also bent my bumpstop brackets when I was blasting through the dezert so my suspension does cycle a ton of travel easily. Anyways here is a picture.
http://www.socalbigdawgs.com/albums/zcarczar/abm.jpg

[subrunner]

K5, did you have to redrill the axle locating hole in the spring pack? Did it move the front axle forward or back at all?

[K5Blazer]

My front axle is moved forward 2" over stock with the rear springs up front. Which seems to be about perfect, I dont hit the firewall at full bump and can turn lock to lock at full bump without any major rubbage on 35's. I do need flared fenders though, seeing that the 35's are nearly hitting the top of the fender, when I get 37's on there it will be even worse.

[ntsqd]

Top of the fender opening, or top of the fender liner?

The opening can be bulged for clearence with a softball bat.

[Junior]

This has got to be the largest most popular thread of all time.

Junior

[jamesjones]

Of course, everybody loves K5's. http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[matt_helton]

Chevy Thunder!!!! http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[subrunner]

What do you have fo steering with the axle moved forward like that? Crossover? Front driveshaft issues?

[K5Blazer]

I dont have the fender liners anymore, but I am hitting where the liner used to bolt to. Im not going to spend anytime messing with these fenders anyway, all the spotwelds and such are broken from frame flex.

[subrunner]

What I meant is that the stock steering linkage is so short and prone to bumpsteer as it is that shortening it doesn't seem like an option. So the stock drive shaft still works, even at full droop?

[notime]

i want so see you proyect finished Juan great job , looks nice !!!!!!! http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[CanyonMan]

Ok so I have been talking about my Bro's project Blazer for over a year now. Figured I'd post some pics of it and my friends' Blazers. My Bro's is the beige and White Blazer staock except for 33's and graphite painted stock wheels, my buddy Tony's with 33's limited slips front and rear (12 bolt), built 327 bored .030 with a Jet 700R4 and 2000 stall converter, and my friend Barb's with 32's and stock 12 bolt with limited slip and mildly built 355. These pics were taken at the Chiva Falls trail in the Rincons outside of Tucson.

[CanyonMan]

Buddy Tony's Blazer

[CanyonMan]

Friend Barb's Blazer

[K5Blazer]

[ QUOTE ]
What I meant is that the stock steering linkage is so short and prone to bumpsteer as it is that shortening it doesn't seem like an option. So the stock drive shaft still works, even at full droop?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, stock steering will not work that well. It would work temporarily, but I wouldnt run it for any length of time. As for the driveshaft it will work, but you need to clearance the CV joint and extend the shaft, but it barely has enough slip to work.

[subrunner]

That's what I thought. I figured that I'd need to go to crossover steering. That crappy thing is that I just got my front driveshaft redone(new slip yoke and stuff). Cool! I think what I'm going to do is move the front hanger 2" forward and the shackle 2" back. That way I won't be moving the axle forward or back. The last thing I need is more wheelbase on a Suburban. lol.

[K5Blazer]

You could run the spring, and redrill the centering pin. Cause I dont think you can move the front hanger forward 2". You wont need to move the rear hanger at all. You will get a bitchin shackle angle with that setup.

[subrunner]

Why couldn't you move the hanger forward only 2"?

[ntsqd]

As I recall there is no 'there' there, would need to build structure to support it. At least that's the case on my '79 Sub. So it can be done, but it isn't a simple matter of cutting some rivets and drilling new holes.

[subrunner]

Gotcha! I noticed that there's 2 unused holes further foreward, wonder if that's the holes that you use? I would think that redrilling the locating holes shouldn't be too big of a deal.

[jeff]

Hey Jerry... did you ever get a chance to locate the overall shots of the Blazer you posted back a while ago? It's the early K5 owned by a friend/employee of yours - you had posted a few shots of the suspension but none of the entire vehicle. Any chance you could post a few more of that vehicle? I've got a buddy with a 1972 that wants to "upgrade" his so he can more easily keep up with us out in the dunes.

Aloha

[jamesjones]

I think his friends Blazer was an 89. Nate from Blitzkrieg Motorsports has a nice 72. I have one but I'm still working on getting it running right and then it'll go to Blitzkrieg for the supsension, cage, etc. I'd definitely have your friend check them out. The website is www.blitzkriegoffroad.com (http://www.blitzkriegoffroad.com)

[jamesjones]

Can't let this thread die. Here's some of Nate from Blitzkrieg's work on my Blazer.
http://members.cox.net/k5james/Pan%20Frame.JPG

[jamesjones]

Radius Arm
http://members.cox.net/k5james/Rad%20Arm.JPG

[jamesjones]

Engine Cage from the right
http://members.cox.net/k5james/K5%20engine.JPG

[jamesjones]

Engine Cage from the front
http://members.cox.net/k5james/K5engine2.JPG

[jamesjones]

Front is done, on to the cage and rear
http://members.cox.net/k5james/2blazer.JPG

[mckustomfab]

All of this info is awsome and this is one of the best theads ever, anyone have and updated picss

[mckustomfab]

This is to give you a idea of what im starting with 1975 Chevy blazer Stock except for the 31" Tires, i can post up more pics later

[Jess]

hey guys i got a 78 blazer looking to do some work.

38's 6in lift.

i got a problem maybe you guys can help me with..

when ever i hit a bump my truck will pull that direction. or when i change lanes.. it hard to go over the rutt once it gets over it kinda just goes over very fast.

i have replaced the steering stablizer ball joints on driver side and the steering knuckle.

I have the drop pitman arm and the raised steering arm

[mckustomfab]

you might also check out the forum at www.ck5.com good luck:D

[mckustomfab]

Any one have any updated pics or info.