22RE motor project for baja bug

[Erik Irvine]

I was wondering if anbody had any informaton or suggestions about a project I have been thinking about.
I have a mid-travel baja bug with a built bus box. I was thinking about putting a 22RE motor instead of the standard air cooled vw 4 cylinder. I realize I would need to mount a radiateor deal with a computer and wiring as well as an adapter plate. What else is there that I might need to know before I partake in this project?
(I know people like to shoot down ideas but I am looking for some positive feedback if there is any out there)

[ACID_RAIN28]

I have seen "skaterstars" in baja, just run the radiators in the back with ducting.

[geoff]

it seems to me like there are many better options than a 22RE. Why this motor? There are many much better options with easier/more affordable driveline setups, particularly for a bug.

[Erik Irvine]

The reason I chose a 22RE mototr is because I am a fan of that particular motor. I have owned about 5 different toyota's with that motor and was very happy about the motor and it's reliability. I also don't want to put a motor with too much power like a v6 or anything because I know I will probably end up killing myself.I also have experience working on that motor and rebuilding if and when I would need to. As far as the drivetrain goes I was just gong to use an adapter plate and my bus box. I am on a budget

[geoff]

if it were mine... (sorry for the old addage)

i would get an sr20DE out of a nissan sentra or an infinity G20, and run that. The motor is similar to the 22R, except an extra cam, the efi is far superior, the wiring harness is simple as can be, and the trans already has 2 outputs for CVs. They can usually be had for about 120-180$ at a junkyard. They last forever and are some of the best motors ive ever worked with.

edit: it has an LSD too

[elcaprerunner]

Scat motor!!!!!!! http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[michael_loomis]

keep in mind those water cooled motors dont make the low end torque of an air cooled , so you'll be running the gearbox through hi RPMs and bus boxes dont like that very much .

i believe some front wheel drive engines turn the wrong direction also

back in the day , cecil wright (the wright place)had a sweet (for the time) baja with a pinto 2 or 2.3 liter in it.

[ntsqd]

One bonus to a 22R/RE is the low end grunt. Out of the box they are not particularly happy above 4k, or mine isn't anyway. I see the extra torque on tap as more of a hazzard to the t/a's life than any high rpm use.

Biggest issue I see is you'll be adding a lot of weight to the rear of the baja. 22R/RE's are not the lightest 4 cyl around. You'll be needing to change the t-bars and damper rates from what you have now.

The guy, whose name I can't recall, who owns California Chassis Engineering in SFV somewhere used to have a 22R in a baja. Saw it out at El Mirage about 10 years ago. Maybe he still has some/all of the parts ?

My own engine choices:
13B Rotary (turbo'd as a means of muffling it, they're REALLY loud otherwise)
4A-GE Toyota
Sube

[1992f150]

You'd have to check to see if an adapter plate is available for that nissan motor. Also you wouldn't want to use the tranny most likely. Alot of fwd cars are offset, meaning the tranny has a short and a long axle. Also to run it rear engine, it would be backwards so you'd only be able to go forward with your 1 reverse gear. Whether or not it would work with longtravel, or hold up to offroad abuse, or have a low enough r&p ratio for big tires are other concerns....

go here and do a search for 22re: http://www.dune-buggy.com/buggytalk/
One guy on there has a toyota engine that he added a blower to and he runs a bus box, I think his is a rail and not a baja however.

You might also want to look at a turbo 2.3 ford, from an 80s mustang, thunderbird, etc....
http://www.blindchickenracing.com/How_to/T-bird_install/2_3_ford_install.htm

[geoff]

only the crappies of the crappy cars have uneqal length driveshafts. Most have an intermediate shaft.

why would it have to be backwards in the back? The class 10 cars run honda motors all the time, whats wrong with a bug that had one?

i believe the guy with the 22R and a blower is named nate? He built his own standalone EFI ecu, like me from the bowling and grippo design. really nice guy

[michael_loomis]

a tranny for a honda must be configured differently inside than for an air cooled

[geoff]

got any pics? id like to see... m not following what needs to be configured differntly?

[GFC]

from my understanding (info from a buddy who has an alimicraft), the v6 honda motors spin in the typical direction where as teh 4cilinders spin in the opposite direction. they have a v-tec v6 in their rail. if you are ever in the oceanside area, there is a VW place near B&R buggies (760)722-1266(iv forgotten the name of the place) the guy that works ther has a water cooled bug that is pretty sweat. he knows his stuff. i am also looking at a 20/22R moter to be the power plant for my baja project.

[1992f150]

yes I think his name is nathan. He used a megasquirt system or something.
Using just the motor will work provided it spins the same way an aircooled motor works, AND you can get an adapter plate for it. Most hondas for example spin the wrong way. How much work/if its possible to get it to spin the right way I am not sure. What im saying is if you use the motor and transaxle from a fwd car, and run it rear engine, then you have the trans facing backwards. So you'd have 5 reverse gears and 1 forward gear. You still would have problems with finding a low enough ring and pinion ratio, and if it would hold up to longtravel, or offroad.

[tedmales]

i think he just wants to use the engine, not the tranny.

[KitRacer]

The guys that run the Honda four cylinders in their ten cars use either a fortin or mendeola tranny, those transmissions have the ability to flip the ring and pinion, making it possible to once again have 4 or 5 forward gears and one reverse.

As far as your engine choice goes, i think the weight is going to be your biggest concern, other than that, the motor is awesome, and i was considering it for my buggy. Instead i am going to use a motor called an Echotech. It is made by chevy. A friend of mine owns Turn Key Engines, and is selling the complete package for about 4 or 5 thousand, he isnt completly finished with it yet. It comes with a preprogrammed marine grade brain, exhaust w/ mufflers, intake, adapter plate, and a plummed radiator. Basically you hook up the positive to the brain and a fuel line, and you go. It puts out about 180 completly stock, and with a turbo bolted right to the intake manifold (very simple) it puts out 300. Let me know if you are interested, and i will find his number

[geoff]

ahhh turn key good stuff. tell him geoff from glen's shop in AZ says hi. I rent my shop from glen

[slimjim]

i have some sweet pics of a chevy r&d echotech motor. i got the pics at a NASCAR race - the motor was on display at one of the chevy team areas. i'll try and post a pic when i get home from work. that motor looks sooo cool.

[slimjim]

heres the 2.2l L4 ecotec motor.
i have some pics of DOHC V6 ecotec too.

[slimjim]

another 2.2l L4

[slimjim]

one more...

[slimjim]

i think the last pic didn't upload all the way - try this one.

[Erik Irvine]

Ya that motor looks good if I feel like spending $30,000 on a motor. I need something that is a resonable price.

[geoff]

they do come in a reasonable price form... we have some at our shop right now. Turbo and affordable.

[1992f150]

You should be realistic with how much your transaxle can handle too...

[Erik Irvine]

I am looking at spending less than $3,000 in parts.

[GFC]

iv herd from those that used corvaier(sp) motors, that there was a kit avilable to make them run in the correct direction so that they could bolt up to a typical bug/bus tranny. it included a reverse starter, reverse camshaft, reverse distributer, and an addapter plate. do any of you know if there is somthing liek this offered for honda 4 cylnders. i resently came upon a freebee 97 v-tech honda 4 popper and was considering it for a potentual powerplant for my project bug. i belive the company that put out the kit for the corvaiers was called Crown Ing. any help would be appreciated. oh one more thing, what do the trannys that the class 10 cars go for ?$?$

[KitRacer]

if its not a swing axle, you can install the tranny upside down. I dont recomend it. Also if you install the motor and tranny in midengine config it will also spin the right way. Neither way is a very good idea, but it does work

[frankh]

I think you can flip the ring gear assy in the box insead of mounting it up side down. but I'm sure there are some tranny guys in here that can give you the right info.

[KitRacer]

You cant flip the R&P in a bus box http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[GFC]

i dunno about mounting it upside down, i would think the way the oil sits in there only works properly when mounted in the traditional manner. even if someone(not me) did that, wouldnt there be no change in the direction it spins?( to me it sounds like you were joking when u threw out that advice... am i wrong?)

[1992f150]

GFC if you want to run that honda, might want the econo mendeola (4.5 grand) then you can just flip the r&p gear, not have to pay for/install some bizare kit, and have much better reliability, strength, and gear ratios...Sorry I do not know if a kit exsists or not, I have never heard of one. You could call one of the higher end sandrail builders they would probably know since people tend to put all sorts of different engine combos in their cars.
btw where'd you get a free motor? http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[KitRacer]

i wasnt suggesting it, but i have heard of it being done beofre. I have seen a bus tranny w/ honda engine mounted midengine style before, it was a sandrail, and the tranny didnt last long

[GFC]

a buddy of mine works at a shop, the owners son was doin an engine swap and told him he could have it since he new we were workin on our project. its complete except for the wiring harness (shuldnt be difficult to find one). It would be nice to put a fresh meneola tranny in it but if i could get my hands on a used/reconditioned one..... anyone know of any for sale? http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ntsqd]

Um,
Hewland Mk. 6/7/8/9 transaxles use a Bug transaxle case, Upside down. Granted, nothing except the case is VW, but using that case does require that the shaft & bearing arrangement be the same as the VW. Those t/a's will live with up to 200 HP hooked to asphalt via 6"-8" road racing rubber.

I suspect that poor life of a flipped bug t/a can be traced to either improper oil level or circumstances unrelated to it being upside down.

And I can't think of a reason why you can flip an IRS but not a swing. Both should work equally well or poorly.