Rate these A-arms

[Billy_the_Kid]

Alright everybody, I would like some critisizm on these a-arms that I built. They are the umpteenth revision, but first working proto type that I have. My buddy and test pilot (Rod Wells) is going to run them on his '02 Chevy Stock this weekend in the opening round of the CORR series in Dresser, WI. since my truck still isn't done...

We had to use all the stock pivot points, so we only have about 10" of usable travel. Managed to get four Bilsteins mounted on top there, not an easy task. And we didn't have time to 'pretty' them up or paint them.

Here's picture #1. So what do you think???

#817 CORR Stock

[Billy_the_Kid]

Here's a picture of just the a-arms before the install.

[Billy_the_Kid]

Here's the old ones, they're real ugly...

[Donahoe]

well..... Your getting better..

[Jerry Zaiden]

No comment.

[Kritter]

How come nobody rallies to change the shock rule to be able to run reservoir shocks? I spoke with hoeker on this and he was saying that it is too bad thats the way the rules are...4 emulsions per wheel is standard for that class it seems, but one 2.5 or 3 inch res shock would not only be cheaper, it would be easier to design for and tune....

[FABRICATOR]

Extraordenugly!

[orvacian]

I give them a 10! (on a scale of 10-100) http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Just kidding, I am sure they work good.

[025]

NICE! paint them blue and throw some Fabtech stickers on.

[ACID_RAIN28]

I think fabtech is spelledt c-h-a-s-s-i-s--t-e-c-h

[Billy_the_Kid]

I didn't build the old set, that was a different butcher. The old ones only had 3 shocks, and gave about 6 inches of travel. I think we made major improvements in getting another shock plus 4 more inches of travel. We are using all of the available angle that the ball joint will give us. The geometry for the most part is good, from what I've measured. At full droop we have 4 deg. neg. camber, and at full bump we also have 4 deg. neg. camber, and it never goes less than 1 deg. neg. camber. Caster gain, now thats another story. With the stock pivot points... let's not go there. I haven't tried to check the bumpsteer yet, so we'll see on that. Like Kritter said it's stupid that we have to run 2.0" emulsion shocks, but those are the rules. If I could fit five shocks I would do it and add another.

I'm sorry that I don't have any laser cut parts to show off. And I don't have access to a tig welder, so they aren't all pretty and stuff. I should also point out that in the first picture everything is just tacked in place and not trimmed for tire clearance yet either. And there are already a few changes in plan for the next set that will go on my truck.

#817 CORR Stock

[John_Bitting]

Bill, keep up the good work. Everyone has to start somewhere. I dont even have the tools to build what you have built so far. Let us know how they hold up. Good luck at the race.

[hoeker]

what you guys call ugly in those arms are all features that are required because of the rules in place by CORR. bill, i see some creative ways around the problems you encountered building those arms, and see potential for them to work as well as possible. i do see a very weak point at the half way point of both arms, you should do a little reinforcing there if you can.

as far as the 2.0 shock rules go it is rediculous but when i brought the issue up last year most of the drivers didn't even want the rule change. 2.5's or 3.0's would never happen but 2.0's with res. would be a significant improvement even if they limited it to 2 shocks per wheel.

see ya at the track

www.rosshoek.com (http://www.rosshoek.com)

[JrSyko]

Is it even possible to "pretty 'um up?"

[Mike_HKmtrsprts]

all I cam say is they wouldnt win a show contest but sometime the ungliest and most f'd up stuff wins they look like somethink I would build http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/smile.gif cuz Im not a really good fabricator I just make it and if it doesnt break run it!!!.....Mike

[Greg]

Just go out and race with them. Who gives a rats ass what they look like. Your racing CORR!!! Not many people here can say that. Hope you have a great season. Ross, is the truck ready?? i wish you the best of luck too.

[Kritter]

Just because there is no dimple dies and TIG welds does not mean there is reason for "no comment"

Go get some media coverage with those bad boys and I will cheer you on...along with Ross!!!!

[ntsqd]

I didn't know CORR trucks were RHD. http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/wink.gif

It's the Peter Principle as applied to racing. The fab quality level rises to the limit of the rules and what gets the job done. Ultimately it's about winning races, not how pretty it is. How pretty it is MAY help get sponsorship, but that assumes the sponsor knows what they're looking at. And that's asking a lot.

What I want to know is who is going to be the first with a moncoque TT or 1 car chassis. It CAN BE DONE, who's gonna step up ?

[havahockey]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
The fab quality level rises to the limit of the rules and what gets the job done

[/ QUOTE ]

Just look at The Piece! That thing looks like it was hit by a nuclear bomb but the damn thing doesn't break!

[JrSyko]

Re: "What I want to know is who is going to be the first with a moncoque TT or 1 car chassis."
What is that?

[UndercoverFab]

the chassis is mainly a stressed skin, no tubing, i figured in score you had to have some sort of tubing for the roll cage in the drivers compartment and thats why no one has done it, but i`m probably wrong after all i`m an east coaster still.
and regarding your arms who cares what they look like as long as they function how you want them to, it`d be a different story if you were trying to sell them. good luck this year.

[Billy_the_Kid]

Thanks everyone for your input.

The new arms worked perfectly!! Rod Wells finished 7th on Sunday and 4th on Monday. He was running in 4th on Sunday when the engine oil cooler broke and he had to pull off track. On Monday he was running up to 3rd when the power steering went out and ended up losing a spot.

Overall he is really happy with the way the new a-arms worked. There is a slight clearance issue with the headers, that will be fixed with new headers, and I'll re-design them slightly for the next version on my truck. The last two shocks didn't show up in time so he had to run 3 per wheel up front, with adding a fourth shock they shouldn't fade as quick.

I have some video of the truck landing off the big table top jump, but nowhere to host it. If someone has a website that can host a little 10 sec. video I can e-mail it to them. PM me if your interseted.

#817 CORR Stock

[ntsqd]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
the chassis is mainly a stressed skin, no tubing, i figured in score you had to have some sort of tubing for the roll cage in the drivers compartment and thats why no one has done it

[/ QUOTE ]

That's about right. Look at Indy, IRL, &amp; F1 cars; they're all monocoques and have a roll bar. Lower classes of purpose-built road racers are nearly all monocoques of some sort or another. Most common are bonded &amp; riveted sheet aluminum structures.
The hard part isn't attaching a cage to the 'tub' as it's called. The hard part is designing the tub itself.

[MNotary]

How about a GOB with 3" iron pipe, full roll cage, OUTSIDE of the car. Now that is worth rating.....

[michael_loomis]

i would think that all the suspension movement would rip a monocoque to pieces.

arms arent the prettiest , but hey better than any i've built .

[UndercoverFab]

now that i think about it desert racing seems to be the only type of auto racing that hasn`t experimented with a monocoque chassis, open wheel guys have been using them for a long time, harry hyde tried developing a monocoque chassis for winston cup and mickey thompson had a monocoque nitro funny car chassis in the 70`s, his car was magnesium though and the first time it cuaght fire it burned to the ground and smoldered for hours, crappy way to find out magnesium is flammable. http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Kritter]

I am sure they knew magnesium was flammable but it is light and most a lot of the alloys are very ductile and stronger then conventional metals. I think Ivan Stewart ran a magnesium Dana 60 in the 80s...Greg can correct me if it was someblody else.

[Jerry Zaiden]

The Herbst trucks are built like this. They use a box structure on the floor and the rest is tube. There are a few others that do this as well.

[Greg]

Bow structure or stressed-skin? My boss is looking at building a stress-skin type car but using tortion bars and rotary dampers, hes got some wild ideas, but now i just need to get him to do it. As for Magnesium, its good stuff, Henrey's used to make cast mag Dana 60's, PPI used them in alot of stuff, i have one now, i wouldnt say its the best thing ever made but it has some mystique and the price was right. Just as a side note, mag is kinda like cast aluminum, but its 33% lighter than Al.

[UndercoverFab]

i was just joking about it being a crappy way to find out it was flammable, when its a solid piece its not so bad, but when we machine it and have alot of shavings around we take alot more precautions then if it was steel or aluminum.

[elcaprerunner]

Sounds to me that it is like a Bug where you would usually base all of the tubing and everything from the pan, right? Also front and rear suspension, and seats and such.