BALDWINS RACE TRUCK

[fabtoys]

I TRIED TO FIND SOME PICTURES OF JASON BALDWIN'S TROPHY TRUCKS REAR SUSPENSION ANYONE KNOW WHERE TO FIND OR HAS SOME ?? THANKS

86 x cab 4x4 short course w/c/o w/ 4 link
99 dodge ram 2500 cummins w/ 37" mtr

[slimjim]

here aresome pics i took at baja 1000 contingency in tj, when the truck was brand new.

put on your seatbelt...

[slimjim]

another...

put on your seatbelt...

[slimjim]

another....

put on your seatbelt...

[slimjim]

lst one....

put on your seatbelt...

[fabtoys]

THANKS ALOT THAT ANSWERS SOME QUESTION I HAD

86 x cab 4x4 short course w/c/o w/ 4 link
99 dodge ram 2500 cummins w/ 37" mtr

[Greg]

I dont know how to make it clicky, but if you go to prerunners.com and looke under pictures from crandon 2002, there are some good pics of the truck without bedsides.

Greg http://prerunners.com/images/assorted/rockdevil.gif

[twillis]

That truck is in the Guiness Book of World Records for "most dimple dies". There was enough chromoly punched out of that truck to build another truck :)

Live your life like a Budweiser commercial

[TxPhPrerunner]

Search for this thread " horizontal rear coil-overs / canitlever" make sure you search all posts it's from a while back. View it in flat I think the pic is on page 8. It's a side view of the rocker arm.

I don't live on the edge. I fell over long ago.

[FABRICATOR]

You mean this one?

<font color=blue>"A Ship in the harbor is safe, but that's not what ships are built for"</font color=blue>

[ACID_RAIN28]

Arn't they made by Bryan Kudela?

"Everything you do is triggered by an emotion of either desire or fear."

[TxPhPrerunner]

Yep, that one.

I don't live on the edge. I fell over long ago.

[drtdevil93]

ok, now explain the two lines per reservoir...

erik

[ntsqd]

Egads, There's some interesting plumbing going on with those dampers & gas springs. Note the check valve-like body on the by-pass damper's reservoir fitting.

TS

I used to swerve around my halucinations, now I drive right thru them.

[FABRICATOR]

A closer-in view. Lines are to circulate fluid. They are required when using a solid, non-flowing piston. Bryan Kudela designed the truck.

<font color=blue>"A Ship in the harbor is safe, but that's not what ships are built for"</font color=blue>

[jcorsico]

Can somebody point out the gas springs? I was under the impression that truck ran torsion bars at all four corners, but I could be wrong.

Jon

[jcorsico]

And the truck runs a solid piston? It has hydraulic bump stops, so I wouldn't have figured the solid piston was necessary since you don't need the shocks to totally stop up travel in the suspension. The two fluid lines to the reservoir could be just to circulate fluid in and out of the reservoir as the shock cycles for cooling. That would make sense if the check-valve looking items were actually check valves - as the shock cycles and the shaft displaces more and less fluid, the check valves could be used to force fluid flow in only one direction in and out of the reservoir, which would I guess give you more cooling since the fluid continually replaced itself.

Ivan's Toyota TT appears to have such a system. There are two extra cylinders between the shock and the real reservoir, and these extra cylinders have lots of cooling fins on them - they almost look like fins on a radiator or air conditioner condenser.

Jon

[NorCal_Prerunner]

I though the old truck had a torsion bar in the rear as well. Not sure about the new one.
Attached:Old truck before Laughlin last year.

It's never too late to be what you might have been....

[JrSyko]

They only ever built three of them. Maybe you are confusing this Baldwin's truck with Nick Baldwin's new truck who races under the Riviera program. That truck does not have a torsion bar.

Most wars are the result of compounded stupidity and those who believe it

[Greg]

Chuck, please elaborate on "non-flowing piston" . As for solid piston shocks needing 2 reservoir lines, hmm, mine only have 1 line and seem to work fine. I think all the solid piston shocks still use a series of holes to control bleed, except ted kendal shocks but i hear the dont work so good anyway. Bilstien used to, and may still, use check valves to force the fluid to circulate but on shocks like mike smiths, the 2 reservoir lines are to flow enough fluid to prevent spiking because of such a large shock shaft. If my info is wrong, please let me know.

Greg http://prerunners.com/images/assorted/rockdevil.gif

[Jerry Zaiden]

Baldwin trucks do not run a solid piston. They run a stacked valve stack. 3 layers thick because of the motion ratio they are used in I think the front is 2.2 to 1 and the rear is 3 to 1. The rear has 12" shocks and the front has 12" shocks. Those shocks are the old Kuster shocks that is why the by-pass tubes look like that. Man those were nice shocks! But very expensive. Those trucks run torsion bars front and rear for springs and if you look close you will see were the sway bar is!

[robert_encinas]

i thought mike smith built the baldwin trucks( jim, jason and carl renezeder)?. i was told that they are in fact torsion sprung suspension.

[ntsqd]

Noticed the swaybar torsion arm.
I see what looks like it could be the adjuster for the right side just above the rocker's pivot point, are they both bending and twisting the torsion bars ? That seems like a failure looking for a place to happen. Guess if that's what they're doing it must work.

TS

I used to swerve around my halucinations, now I drive right thru them.

[FABRICATOR]

A little closer view.
There are a couple of things that lead to the thought of Baldwins shocks using solid pistons, one of which is that someone who should know said they were...another is that it looks like everything is there to do it. The fact that the reservoir hose(s) are on the shaft side of the piston and that there are by pass tubes, will allow this. But this still does not make it so. Corsico is right on the cooling aspect. With the shocks laid down like that, bunched together, wraped with hoses and dirt, and covered by a body, circulating fluid through the reservoirs would probably almost double the cooling capacity. At a 3 to 1 ratio, or anything close to that, the flow is far to low to require two lines to handle the volume or to avoid spiking. But with a check valve the fluid will circulate and each hose must be capable of full volume. Another thing that happens with a high ratio (anything above about 2.5 to 1) is that bleed passages can affect damping. I have found that leaving even one of the three tiny bleed passages on the piston open (King or SAW) will noticably affect damping.

Re: "Mike smith shocks also run a solid piston, nothing like a conventioal shock. As for the bumps and bypasses, I belive Ryerson shocks are about the only ones to fully combat bottoming and still run a valved piston. Greg" (10/29/02)

A solid piston would have a distinct, but not exclusive, advantage to work against bottoming. Bump stops being light, strong, and efficient, are often used as a backup for the really nasty things that happen out there, and may or may not have anything to do with normal suspension chores. They also sometimes allow you to keep going when other things are failing.

<font color=blue>"A Ship in the harbor is safe, but that's not what ships are built for"</font color=blue>

[jcorsico]

What are the bleed passages for again? I've seen a solid piston and it had three very small holes, maybe the width of a toothpick each, but there were obviously no valves on them or anything. Are those the bleed passages? I didn't ask what they were for when I was looking at the piston.

Jon

[Greg]

The little holes in the piston that yoou saw are just that "bleed holes". They actually just take away from the effective damping of the piston. Most of the solid puck pistons use this kind of adjustment, its used an an overall setting on the shock,but it has a much greater effect on very slow speed comp, and rebound. As Chuck stated shaft speed has a great effect on the holes put in the piston. For instance, i have a 22" travel rear shock, mounted at about 1.2:1, so the shaft spped is really high, hence i have 2, .125 holes and 1,.325 inch holes in the piston that measures 3". But i have a Mike smith piston (not in my shocks) that has about 15 # 8 set screws in it for adjustment that would not work like mine. Keep in mind that the damping adjustments are made by the bypass tubes, and there needs to be a lot of flow through the tubes to avoid hydraulic locking. That is why the very large single hole in the piston, there just wasnt enough flow for the weight (actually, the lack of spring to extend the shock for fast enough rebound) of my truck to overcome, instead of another bypass tube (which wouldve been better) i just kept opening holes to get the shock to work. Did i just confuse a bunch of people?

Greg http://prerunners.com/images/assorted/rockdevil.gif

[ACID_RAIN28]

Crystal, working on the same thing right now

"Everything you do is triggered by an emotion of either desire or fear."

[Jerry Zaiden]

"i thought mike smith built the baldwin trucks( jim, jason and carl renezeder)?. i was told that they are in fact torsion sprung suspension".


The trucks were designed by "Light Racing" Brian K. The Fabricators were Mario, Steve hatch, Dave Frugeia. These guys do some of the most amazing work. Mario works in Hollywood on movie sets, Steve works on Military top secret spy planes, and Dave has gone on to build trucks for McPherson, Riviera, and now on a Top secret Trophy truck. The trucks were built in Irvine California at Baldwins race shop.

[ACID_RAIN28]

What happend to the Mac's after that primm race that they did not race at, the dissapeared?

"Everything you do is triggered by an emotion of either desire or fear."

[shrek]

Now I want to see a in car cam that has a view of that suspension working. Does anyone know if it has already been done???



Value your right to say whatever you want...........because there are some that can't.

[hoeker]

plan on doing it on my pro-2 this year. i'll post it after i get it done.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.rosshoek.com>www.rosshoek.com</A>

Some are born great, some achieve greatness,
and some have greatness thrust upon them.

[ACID_RAIN28]

There was a TLC show on 4wd and the macpherson trucks were on it, they had some suspension footage, as well as the DP movie.

"Everything you do is triggered by an emotion of either desire or fear."

[FlyHiFlyLo7]

One thing I notice about this truck. While running full speed and hitting the big stuff in the rear. It appears the way the spring is orientated it tends to rotate the front of the truck up rather than push the front end down. Just like Ragland's old trucks. I like it!

[Kritter]

"That is why the very large single hole in the piston, there just wasnt enough flow for the weight (actually, the lack of spring to extend the shock for fast enough rebound) of my truck to overcome"

Just copy Edelbrocks inertia valve design that a few people are in the process of ripping off...no more slow rebound due to lack of spring rate.

I like that you use the correct term "damping" when referring to vehicle dynamics...good man Greg!

[JESSE_at_TLT]

Just copy Edelbrocks inertia valve design that a few people are in the process of ripping off...
Who are you talking about?