Fab Tools

[TxPhPrerunner]

I'm getting ready to build my first truck and I have been searching the net for tools. I found this site and was wondering if some of the experienced fabricators on the bbs would look at the benders and other tools this guy has and tell me what you think. The url is http://209.238.153.119/index.html . Also how about a suggested reading list for first time builders. Much like lower links 101 it could eliminate some questions and help some of us build better trucks at the some time.

I don't live on the edge. I fell over long ago.

[Brian Mapes]

Sort of off subject but what are your opinions on this bender.


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=35336

You gots to pay da cost to be da boss. - Snoop

[fishd00d]

WHAT A JOKE! Thats my opinion!


Go Big Or Go Home
United Jumping Truck Society

[Brian Mapes]

what kind of bender do you have?

You gots to pay da cost to be da boss. - Snoop

[fishd00d]

JD2 Model 3

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.jd2.com/M3B_Features.htm>http://www.jd2.com/M3B_Features.htm</A>

Go Big Or Go Home
United Jumping Truck Society

[1992f150]

avoid harbor freight like the plague. Besides thats for pipe not tube, tube will not work well at all.

Azusa: shame of the foothills

[Kbach66]

I wouldn't say avoid harbor frieght like the plague....
They have some great tools that get the job done when needed. Granted, they're not for a fab shop or anything serious, but to the weekend warrior that needs to cut or grind some metal they work alright. I still have one of thier chop saws that I paid about $60 for around 8 years ago that I've used to cut a SH*$ load of tubing with. Sure, I could've paid big bucks and got a name brand...but so far I've been lucky. I also just bought their 12" disc sander for $89...again....I could've bought a $800 Apex but I don't need it.

Now that I said all these nice things about harbor frieght tools...they're probably all going to take a dump on me next time I use them!!!

[1992f150]

save a nickel, save a dime, f**k yourself every time...Ive never gotten anything from there that wasnt total junk, to the cresent wrench that broke in 1 day, to the saw blade that was dull after 10 minutes use, to the notcher that didn't line up right....

Azusa: shame of the foothills

[fishd00d]

The one thing I know a lot of people have from there is their Impact Sockets.....I havent seen or heard of any problems with them......

Go Big Or Go Home
United Jumping Truck Society

[ntsqd]

The trick with HF is to match the tool to what you are buying it to do. HF carries name brand stuff too, you just have to look a little harder to find it.

Williams LoBuck Tools aren't always the lowest priced, but they have a rep for making high quality stuff. I would not balk at any of their stuff. I have their shrinker/stretcher set on near permanent loan. Have yet to really need them. Their notcher is better and easier to use than the holesaw type, but for the home fab guy who won't be using it every single day the holesaw type is a lot less $$$.

TS

I used swerve around my halucinations, now I drive right thru them.

[ACID_RAIN28]

That bender will acutally work for tubing, it just needs a little love and she works like a champ for all bends under 90deg :)

"Everything you do is triggered by an emotion of either desire or fear."

[fishd00d]

Ya it will work like a creased champ! :)

Go Big Or Go Home
United Jumping Truck Society

[ACID_RAIN28]

ahh contrare mon frare (sp) I actually did a little research and came up with this and it did work. Take a piece of schedual 80 pipe, bend it to the max and the half tube it in the die and you get a perfect 1.5" die for tube, and the put flat plate on the rollers on the outside as to not crease it and there you go. The schedual 80 worked for 1.5" and for 1" as for the other dies I think it still needed an additional space, but the all will work, but by the time you get it going and fiqure it out and use it you will wish you had just spent the cash on a real unit, as I did so I pick up a real hydro unit for $300, but yes it does work.

"Everything you do is triggered by an emotion of either desire or fear."

[geoff]

where can i find this notcher? I usually use holesaws but thats been getting old.

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams." -- Willy Wonka

[jeff]

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.lowbucktools.com/notcher.html>http://www.lowbucktools.com/notcher.html</A>

Aloha

[YotaWhoopRunner]

I'm not fond of Harbor Freight's tools for long term use, just as long as they get the job done for the project I need it for. Well I wanted to know what you guys thought of this idea.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=44094>http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=44094</A>

This bender seems similar to the jd2/ protools benders design and looks like it could possibly be adapted to use their dies. Is it worth a try?

[singlehanded]

no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/jk

midnight landscaper working overtime and I'm full throttle I'm full throttle tonight

[tedmales]

they ( hf) have a conduit bender that is floor mounted that will bend 1" mild like the champ, just needs a little longer handle.

life is too short to be small

[ntsqd]

HF's mothership is just across the fwy from my last place of employment. I've looked at that bender during lunch. It is a smal scale copy of the Hossfeld bender. It has no provision for compound leverage like the JD/ProTool/DesertSteel benders do.

To try to do a cage with one would kill it. It's simply not heavy enough.
It would be good for bending widgets that get welded to something, just not for the something itself.

TS

I used swerve around my halucinations, now I drive right thru them.

[bROk]

I have the model 3 bender as well. I dont think you can get a better bender for the price, when I was pricing benders I couldnt find anythng better for the money - and although some of Harbor Freights products do suck, I have to say that alot of their deals are worth the money. Where else can you get a 4 1/2" angle grinder for $14.99... if it **BAN ME****BAN ME****BAN ME****BAN ME**s on you your out 15 bucks. Chances are its gonna work for a decent amount of time.

A smart-ass is better than a dumb-ass

[twillis]

I've purchased a few things from HF that actually worked. A welding blanket, right angle magnets, a deburring tool, PSA round sanding discs, chopsaw blades, and a jackstand. Notice that none of them have moving parts.....

I live my life one paycheck at a time

[BlueCoyote]

Have no experiance with the WLBT benders.
Look around for a used JD2 #3 bender - they do surface once in a while. ProTools is also nice stuff.
As for the HF pipe bender - I have built lots of rock sliders, bumpers and even roll bars for rock crawling trucks with mine. Since this was all slow speed stuff, and .188+ wall pipe, it was acceptable. But have to say that the JD is 10 times the machine.
Home Depot / Ryobi stuff is decent - got the chop saw and grinder on sale.
Have HF anlgle grinder - 6 years of abuse and still going. Best $15 ever spent. The flat bender is good for small flat stuff. Drill press is good for most stuff. Would avoid the HF brand welders/plasma cutters. Most of my other HF stuff (non-powered ) used in non-stress applications has held up well.

Who are you calling Coyote ugly?
84 Toyota p/u Rokrawlr
86 4rnr
84 Toyota 7s Project

[TxPhPrerunner]

So, Low Buck Tools has good stuff just not always at the lowest price. How About a suggested tool list for a beginner? Also the reading list I asked about in my first post would be cool. I'm starting to get the Idea that there is no such thing. I guess this sport is too young and for the most part road race doesn't work. I have some ideas I think are good but I don't want to take over the board with questions and I have nothing to compare them to.

I don't live on the edge. I fell over long ago.

[1992f150]

see if a local JC offers a metal fabrication class, the closest thing you can get to what you want to learn short of work experience.
tools:
bender, welder, chop saw, hand grinder, bench grinder with wire wheel, sawzall, torch/plasma cutter, drill press, layout tools such as protractor, compass, etc... air tools like impact wrench, big floor jack, acouple sets of jack stands, Most importantly a place that has room to work on your stuff.


Azusa: shame of the foothills

[ntsqd]

I'd sub a small horizontal metal cutting bandsaw for the chop saw unless you need to be able to cut hardened steel like stub axle or halfshafts. HF actually has a good one for about $200 or less. I find it to be far more useful and a LOT quieter. You can stand it up to use as a verticle bandsaw. Has a shallow throat for that use, but it works.

Both Ron Fourier metal fab books are worth their cost. Wouldn't bother with R. Finch's "Perf. Welding." All of Carroll Smith's books are very worthwhile. "Engineer to Win" has the most directly usable fab info in it. I'd recommend the Herb Adams "Chassis Engineering" book as a starting place. Search the bbs, books on suspension design have been covered b4.

The thing about road racing suspension design books is that their goals are different, but you can take the theories and extrapolate them to work on a dez machine. You are not going to get everything right, not even the 23rd time. There are too many nuances to suspension design for that to happen. What you can do is build a suspension that has little or no bad characteristics, if you read and digest what you've read, and then bounce your understanding off this bbs to see if you've got it b4 you cut any metal.

TS

I used swerve around my halucinations, now I drive right thru them.

[jeff]

I've got a hole saw question... does anyone know of a company that sells a 1.5" and 1.75" diameter bi-metal hole saw that will cut to a depth of 2" inches or more? The reason I ask is it'd simplify life to have a hole saw with a deeper cutting capacity so that when notching tube I could go all the way through without flipping the tube and re-aligning everything. I've found some 1.75" deep hole saws but something in the 2-3" deep range would be great. If anyone knows a source for something like this please post it!

I tried searching for deep and extra deep hole saws and didn't find much. The deepest I found was 1-7/8" but that's not quite enough. Many mahalos ahead of time.

Aloha

[jwfab1]

I use the Dewalt ones from Home Depot. The 1 1/2" works fine. The overall length is about 2". Hope that helps.

Jason

[Kritter]

Jeff:

The problem if you get a hole saw that would do that sort of depth, the material would have to be very resistant to torsion($$$) because with a small applied force or a catch of a tooth to that thing it will just twist itself and be junk. The biggest I have found was 1-7/8 and that was a "deep hole saw."

Kris
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.barneysprecision.com/fabproducts.htm> Fab Parts</A>

[In_the_works]

I have a similar question, only different. I just bought a Harbor Freight notcher (I know, I know....) and the thing wount hold tube in place without it binding against the saw blade. Anyone know of how I can remedy this, or find some shorter depth (1 1/2' or less) hole cutting blades?

'96 F-150 4x4 ex cab
'02 Maico 250
'03 Sonoma
Look at me! I'm a member.

[Brian Mapes]

Check out the JD2 notcher. I think i am going to get it in a few weeks when i getsome more dough.

http://www.jd2.com/

Im gonna waste away my life cuz i really dont care, jump every bump in my truck all tires in the air

[Kritter]

We use one off ebay. It rarely gets used but it works fine.

Kris
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.barneysprecision.com/fabproducts.htm> Fab Parts</A>

[motoxscott]

Here's a rule I live by.....................You get what you pay for, so dont expect big things from junk. This theory can be applied to most everything, tools, suspension parts, etc etc.

-Scott

[KitRacer]

in_the_works,
i had the same problem with a cheapo notcher. I ended up bending the steel backing plate about 45 degrees. I was told after this that i needed to break of the tubing once you have cut half way through. I dont know if you have tried this or not but it could help. If you want to strengthen the notcher so it doesnt bind try reinforcing the mount. I made a template for the back and cut it out of thicker material and welded the two together and but longer bolts through everything. Its worth a try. I ended up buying the JD squared in the end though. It has bearings and is of much higher quality. They are $200 at Baja Concepts.

At baseball games they play organs, in motorsports they donate them.

[BlaZair]

How about threaded jack/work stands? Where can I find some?

[bROk]

I have my HF notcher set up on a craftsman drill press - I found mine would catch if I tried to go to fast - I slowed my drilling motion down and its working like a champ.

A smart-ass is better than a dumb-ass

[eastcoastLoser]

I've cut mad 4130 for my mini-baja team, mad thin wall stuff very very rough on cutters, and found Strarret hole saws to be better than dewalt... they last longer.. Use plenty of oil and 300-400 RPM...

You can get Strarret Hole saws from Grainger or so.. Don't use friction cutting saws... Mad problems..

Should last a long time then


Russ


Russ
www.rit.edu/baja
98 ranger 4x4 ext cab
71 cj5

[Brian Mapes]

When you guys are notching tube like 4130 or Dom with a hole saw do you guys use a lubricant to keep the heat down and prevent the hole saw from wearing out so quick?

Im gonna waste away my life cuz i really dont care, jump every bump in my truck all tires in the air

[boltonbros]

yes i use a lubricant from zep. i spray it on while i am notching the tubing.

when in doubt throttle it out

[eastcoastLoser]

DO not use old Engine oil...

I've been told by old machinists about the carcenogens(sp?) coming out and poisioning you. Mobil also sells a real nice cutting oil, I can't remeber the name. Also cool tool works great for tapping


Russ


Russ
www.rit.edu/baja
98 ranger 4x4 ext cab
71 cj5

[SpareChangeRacng]

We use WD40. Steve

[spedy1]

here is a new bender.

[dirtydezracer]

Spedy,
Where did that come from?? Could you please post a link to find that thing, it looks sick!! I've been looking for a good bender for a while, one that can repeatedly handle chromoly.
Thank you--Paul

Drive vigorously, break, repair, repeat.

[hoeker]

wd 40 is a poor cutting lube, although it is better than nothing. go to a machine shop supply house and buy real cutting oil. the good stuff is amazing how good it does with only a couple drops per notch.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.rosshoek.com>www.rosshoek.com</A>

Some are born great, some achieve greatness,
and some have greatness thrust upon them.

[eastcoastLoser]

My team has the Pro-tools with the air over oil cylinder. I like that bender alot. It's not cheap, but with the college paying who cares.. My buddies and I then bought some steel and made our own patterned off the pro-tools one.



Russ
www.rit.edu/baja
98 ranger 4x4 ext cab
71 cj5

[Brian Mapes]

I was looking at the dies for the JD model 3 bender for a 1 3/4 inch round tube and there is two different ones. one that costs 260 and one thatcosts 205. I amnot sure which one i would get.
Here is the link, could someone take a look at the side and tell me which one i should get. http://www.jd2.com/

Here is what it says.

10-2060 M3B Round Tube Die Set - 1 3/4" (5.5-180) .095" $200.00
10-2062 M3B Round Tube Die Set - 1 3/4" (6.5-180) .083" $205.00


Im gonna waste away my life cuz i really dont care, jump every bump in my truck all tires in the air

[eastcoastLoser]

its the radius of the bend..

The 5.5 and the 6.5 dictate the tightest radius you can get in inches from that die. So do you want a 6.5" final radius or a 5.5 inch radius. That is the tightest radius you can get at 180 degrees I believe..

Russ



Russ
www.rit.edu/baja
98 ranger 4x4 ext cab
71 cj5

[hoeker]

they are also specifying the minimum wall tube you can use at that radius. remember the tighter the bend, the weaker. i thought 7" was pretty standard for 1 3/4" tube.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.rosshoek.com>www.rosshoek.com</A>

Some are born great, some achieve greatness,
and some have greatness thrust upon them.

[Brian Mapes]

So you guys think I should get the 6.5 or try and find a 7

Im gonna waste away my life cuz i really dont care, jump every bump in my truck all tires in the air

[spedy1]

my friend is making the benders. you can get one from mckenzies. it will bend 2' .120 cromoly and is at least 3 times as fast as a protools

[jeff]

How much? I gave up trying to get in touch with Dave at Desert Tools. He's either super busy or ???

Aloha

[dirtydezracer]

Any idea what one would run??

Thanks-- Paul

Drive vigorously, break, repair, repeat.

[spedy1]

the bender with 1 die is around $2000

[dirtydezracer]

Doug,

Does that price include the air ram set up, if so, sign me up!! Are they sold strictly through McKenzies or will he sell direct? Also, are the dies compatable with any other benders? JD2?
--Paul

Drive vigorously, break, repair, repeat.

[CRAIGHALL]

I attended the Westec show (machine show) on monday and I saw that bender twice in two different boothes.The only one I remember was in the Pattons Steel booth,sorry didn't see any of the pricing in either booth.

[curt]

That bender looks like a JD2 model 3 <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.jd2.com/M3B_Features.htm>http://www.jd2.com/M3B_Features.htm</A> with a ram attatchment.

VORRA Class 7
#769

[spedy1]

The bender is all hydrolic, no air ram. That is why it is alot faster than a bender with an air ram. You can get one at Mckenzies or from the manufacturer. It is same price.