stick or auto in the desert

[COChev]

come on, lets get a good one going!

[fishd00d]

V6 and below...Stick...
V8 + Auto

Go Big Or Go Home
United Jumping Truck Society

[John_Bitting]

v8 Auto for sure, Good v6 auto anything smaller stick

[dunerking]

What about a diesel? J/k had to throw that in the mix.(auto for the turbo lag)

hit it hard

[Dave_G]

Get the best of both worlds.....sequential shift six speed all the way. ;-)

Dave

"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left" http://www.race-dezert.com/wwwthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

[John_Bitting]

Sure, I will pick one up when I come visit you. :-)

[NOODLE]

Would a 400hp. small block mated to a TH400 and 4.88 gears be ok w/ 37's.

H.O.R.E.
Hemet Off-Road Enthusiasts

[frankh]

V8 with an auto is the way to go.

[ACID_RAIN28]

I think tommy used to run 6.50 with the 35's on the short truck, but that had way more power, you will need something bigger, bfg should have a chart on it web I think.

Do we have a rule book? A rule book, sir?
You know, a book with rules in it.

[hoeker]

if your refering to bradley, everybody in CORR is running 5.83 or greater. most Pro2 and sporty2 are 6.20 to 6.50 depending on track, and engine config.

if not, now you know anyway.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.rosshoek.com>www.rosshoek.com</A>

Some are born great, some achieve greatness,
and some have greatness thrust upon them.

[fox_mccloud2000]

Gaa who in their right mind would want to use an auto in racing?! WTF! I love my manual 5 speed over any auto. Any time of the week. But nooo us lazy Americans don't want to use the manual it is too hard. But oh look we have an auto tranny for all of you pouch moneys. All those auto tranny's make me sick.
blah

-matt-

[SDranger]

Aparently lots of people do. Find a manual that can handle over 800hp and be reliable. Look in any trophy truck- almost all autos, and besides you can manually shift them. I sure as hell wouldn't want to take my hand off the wheel to shift going 120+ in baja, but thats just me.

97 Ranger 4x4
02 CR125

[COChev]

Find a manual that can handle over 800hp and be reliable


How many automatics can do this??? with that much hp either trannie would have to be beefed up. i would think the heat and constant rpms would cook an auto in the desert.

and what gear do you shift into at 120 MPH?

[billymanfroy]

Tell you what. You come up with a stick that I can shift and start without a clutch (I can't move anything below my chest) and I'll run it. Oh, yeah, and it has to be less than a junkyard C4.

Billy

[robert_encinas]

manny esquerras v-6 ranger in class 7 had to go to an automatic tranny because they could not keep clutches in the manual trans which was a t-5.
it was the 4.5 v-6 @410 hp.

[michael_loomis]

hey! that truck says jack johnson lol !

my question is ... why not use an automatic ? the only reason i can come up with is "power robbing" .

i saw an in car video of Robby G back in the "rough riders" era and hes doing 100 + over huge crowded jumps in mexico and was constantly shifting from 2nd to 3rd(blasting through mudholes as well) . automatics hold up fairly well in the desert , id say the broken tranny ratio is about the same between autos and manuals , although i remember Herbst going through something like 14 trannies in either 99 or 2000 .

[Dave_G]

If your not running with the big dogs the automatic will work just fine. The bottom line is if your running a TT that is "in the hunt" the automatics are border line and every TT team is fighting tranny woes. We have done everything we can for the Herbst T-400 in the truggy and it just isn't enough. Were just out of design options for it. Every other TT team I know of constantly has tranny problems with the automatics. The "automatic scene" has kind of maxed itself out with the TT's.

Dave

"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left" http://www.race-dezert.com/wwwthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

[jeff]

Dave_G and anyone else that wants to chime in...

I'm curious to know if the AT guys are having problems in all areas or specific ones. Are the engines just capable of too much power or is it the shock loads from all the jumps/wheelspin/landings? I know a drag race tranny doesn't see nearly the same amount of use before they are rebuilt but the loads they face are just as great. Just curious as to what the weakest link is. How about you get them to go on a diet and run less power? Would having 100 less HP or LB FT mean the difference between life and death for these transmissions? Or... would more torque and less RPM's be your goal? In otherwords, if you were turning these things at a slower rate would they stay together any longer?

Last but not least... what do you think will happen if and when teams start running the larger tires? Is that going to require mucho $$$ to beef up the current vehicles?

Aloha

[Dave_G]

Re:". Are the engines just capable of too much power or is it the shock loads from all the jumps/wheelspin/landings? "

Both. Ask any racer if he'd like more horse power and the answer will always be yes. In any kind of racing that's the name of the game. As the cars are getting faster and the suspension better the drive trains are seeing more abuse. Putting a car on a diet would be great except it may not work. The reason the cars get heavy is that they don't work and parts have to be made larger and stronger to become more reliable.

Take bypass shocks for example. Put a set of King 4.0's on your car instead of some small little Rancho 6000 and tell me the difference. The Kings weigh a lot more than the Ranchos and will increase the vehicle weight but I'll bet the car handles better and is faster which in turn is harder on the drive train. Another issue has more to do with the drivers than the vehicle. Some drivers have the tallent to dance a car across the desert with almost no abuse on the vehicle and some just mash the pedal to the floor and run into everything in front of them.

Re: "what do you think will happen if and when teams start running the larger tires?"

You'll probably see a lot more failures of front spindles and ball joints and if they don't run the new Chrisman ring and pinion their probably doomed. Unsprung weight will also increase so some re-tuning of the shocks will probably be in order also.

Whoops, there goes the trucks getting heavier. ;-)

Dave

"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left" http://www.race-dezert.com/wwwthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

[Steve_Sourapas]

Amen Brother,I currently learning this the hard way.Parts that would never fail for years on my buggy go maybe one or two races on the TT.The only thing that makes it worth it is driving one,the ride quality,performance,and fun factor a buggy will never match.I was done racing til I got a ride in Damen Jefferies truck and that all it took.Also I know of one person who's working on a full race 4 speed auto tramsmission for trucks that should be much stronger and won't cost 6 digits to buy and won't need a computer system to make it go.With all the factory money mostly gone their's really only one,maybe two teams that are willing to spend large dollars to R&D something.I hope this new tranny works,it will allow many of us to take the egg off our right foot.

BEERMAN

[jcorsico]

New Chrisman ring & pinion? What's new about it? Will it require a new housing, or is it just a drop in replacement?

Jon

[FABRICATOR]

Well said, but there's a ton, and in some cases 2 tons, of places to loose weight. As long as these vehicles use a solid rear axle the only way for weight and dollars to go is upward. The MPH increase of the cars per dollar and per pound is ridiculous and is going to get much worse. Someone needs to ask what would be breaking if the weight were around 3700 to 4000 pounds instead of 5200 to 7500. The ring and pinion are every bit as strained as the transmission and are about as frequent a cause to DNF. The engines are very close behind. To say the transmissions are the limiting factor to increased speed is not very accurate. The 39 inch tires are a good example of the same upward spiral. The only vehicles that can put these to good use will be the very heavy ones. They may show up on the back of some IRS cars, but a good part of their advantage will be to regain some of the wheel travel lost to the huge ring and pinions being used. The dollars and effort being spent on "uprading" transmissions could be re-directed to redefine the transaxle, or other apparatus, to specifically and effectively address off-road racing. Until more components designed from the ground up for the intended purpose are used, "progress" will be stuck in the same old upward spiral.

<font color=orange>The best ideas are the ones that look obvious to the casual observer.</font color=orange>

[Steve_Sourapas]

I agree on your view of the weight issue,I believe my truck to come in at around 5300 lbs.A couple months ago I purchased the brand new truggy that Porter Race Cars never finished for Don Hatch.This thing has all the benefits of wheel travel and power that my TT has but should be no more than 4200 lbs. with a much better aero package that a full bodied truck will ever have.It should be finished in the next couple months.It will have a solid rear end in it but I driven both set up's (IRS and solid rear end)and I love the way the solid rear end locks up with both wheels under power.

BEERMAN

[mattrick88]

are you going to race this truggy or just use it as a prerunner/toy?

[Steve_Sourapas]

It was purchased for the purpose of prerunning and spare parts as many of the parts are interchangable with the TT.If it works as good as I think it will you can bet on it racing somewhere depending on my schedule.

BEERMAN

[michael_loomis]

Steve .... if you ever need someone crazy enough to ride shotgun in that thing i'll volunteer !! ;)

[GEARS]

I KNOW THIS IS A OLD SUBJECT,BUT I JUST RECEVIED PICS.
THIS IS THE HD4 FROM MENDEOLA TRANSAXELS
CURRENTLY RUNNING IN THE FOX/MENDEOLA-JIMCO CAR
IT USES A 13" R&P ,IS 4SPEED SEQUENTIAL TRANSAXEL
DESIGNED FOR V8'S MAKING 650-800HP MID OR REAR ENG @300LBS
CV SIZE IS A SERIES 30 FIXED JOINT W/40 DEG. OF ANGEL
TOP GEAR W/37" TIRES EST. =140MPH
THIS UNIT IS IN FULL PRODUCTION AS OF 3/14/03

[GEARS]

R&P

[MNotary]

That thing is eating some ground clearance.

Either the engine or the ring gear has to be low...???

89' Mint There was a air shocked, VW type 1, unlimited with a Bus box that weighed in at 1500lb. Assuming 150hp 10lb/hp

5500lb and 750hp 7.3lb/hp

200 hp in the car would do it.

Notice how the trucks wheels follow the ground while the cars will skip.