In just two years!!!

[pjc]

Remember the election in 2006?

Thought you might like to read the following. A little over one year ago:

1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.

Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:

1) Consumer confidence plummets;
2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $4.50 a gallon;
3) Unemployment is up to 6% (a 20% increase);
4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate (stock and mutual fund losses);
5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars;
6) 1.5% of American homes are in foreclosure.

America voted for change in 2006. and we got it!

Remember it's Congress that makes law not the President. He has to work with what's handed to him.

Quote of the Day........'My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it.' -- Barack Obama


Part 2:

Taxes... Whether Democrat or a Republican you will find these statistics enlightening and amazing.

www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html

Taxes under Clinton 1999 Taxes under Bush 2008
Single making 30K - tax $8,400 Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $14,000 Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $23,250 Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K - tax $16,800 Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $21,000 Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $38,750 Married making 125K - tax $31,250

B. Hussen Obama will return to the higher tax rates.

It is amazing how many people that fall into the categories above think Bush is screwing them and Bill Clinton was the greatest President ever. If Obama is elected, they both say they will repeal the Bush tax cuts and a good portion of the people that fall into the categories above can't wait for it to happen. This is like the movie The Sting with Paul Newman; you scam somebody out of some money and they don't even know what happened.


You think the war in Iraq is costing us too much?

Read this:
Boy, am I confused. I have been hammered with the propaganda that it is the Iraq war and the war on terror that is bankrupting us. I now find that to be RIDICULOUS. I hope the following 14 reasons are forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them. I have included the URL's for verification of all the following facts:

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.
Verify at: http://************/zob77

2. $2..2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. $2..5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
Verify at: http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the U.S . Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt..01.html

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S. from the Southern border. Verify at: Homeland Security Report: http://************/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute, estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period. Verify at: http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin..
Verify at: http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

14. The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States .
Verify at: http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml

The total cost is a whopping $338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.

[goofballracer]

Wow ! My Jaw Is On The Floor.

[twillis]

That's disturbing not only because of the numbers but also because the mainstream media like MSN ignores it. Yesterday their headline was about the one-eyed, three-legged dog that won the World's Ugliest Dog contest. Seems like not only are the wrong people in charge of governing us, but the wrong people are in charge of determining what is "newsworthy".

[pappawheely]

I thought all they did was work hard?

[glamisrnr]

But you also have to remember that when we get taxed less are schools get less funding, I know this as a fact cause I went to school in 2 different states and have seen the amount of a difference that there is, sure Prop taxes are higher here but we have a little bit larger of a school budget that is used on materials and equipment to help us better our futures. But the president also allows bills to pass, he could veto them.

[pjc]

Schools are funded primarily is not solely but states taxes.

[Alex Paterson]

This is all because Dems are in congress? There is no other reason and this would not have happened if the Rep. were still in? This is a question, not a statement.

-Alex

[pjc]

This is all because Dems are in congress? There is no other reason and this would not have happened if the Rep. were still in? This is a question, not a statement.

-Alex

Well Alex, considering that during the "good times" prior to the 'rats taking the congress and senate, the GOP controlled all three seats of national government and these same "good times" came right on the heal of the worst terror attack in history on US soil.

I fear that we face a very serious recession and even worse than the Carter years if B. Hussein is elected completing the triad of a democrat led government. Do you remember the Carter years?

* Some of the highest inflation ever! 11% in 1979!
* Disasterous foreign policy!
* Our diplomats, their families and our soldiers held as hostage!
* Utter defeat in a botched, rescue mission!
* 21% interest rates!
* 8+ % unemployment!
* Doubling the budget deficit through tax increases that killed the economy!

It's all coming back with B, Hussein, Peilosi, Reid, Durbin, et al. and you and your family will feel the pain, so much that I guaranty that after this upcoming debacle you never vote for a 'rat again.

[X10racer]

This is the first time I am voting democrat in my life....I cant stand McCain. I will go for Obama this time.

[Alex Paterson]

Thanks for calling me a rat :(

Think I will start referring to McCain as J, Sidney :) )

-Alex

[Prerunin554]

That's disturbing not only because of the numbers but also because the mainstream media like MSN ignores it. Yesterday their headline was about the one-eyed, three-legged dog that won the World's Ugliest Dog contest. Seems like not only are the wrong people in charge of governing us, but the wrong people are in charge of determining what is "newsworthy".

If you want a real look at what is happening to our nation, you need to go to news outside of the states (i.e. BBC news) which will give you "un-biased" news, not just what will give them ratings.

[pjc]

If you want a real look at what is happening to our nation, you need to go to news outside of the states (i.e. BBC news) which will give you "un-biased" news, not just what will give them ratings.

Unbiased?

Give me some examples.

[scott-dsms]

Thanks for calling me a rat :(

Think I will start referring to McCain as J, Sidney :) )

-Alex

I don't think Pat called you a rat. There's an apostrophe before the r indicating letters before it that were dropped, 'rat is short for democrat. "you will never vote for a 'rat again"

[pjc]

Thanks for calling me a rat :(

Think I will start referring to McCain as J, Sidney :) )

-Alex

When did I call you a "'rat"?

Is this some sort of liberal guilt thing you are trying to push on me?

Is this your rebuttal?

[Alex Paterson]

When did I call you a "'rat"?

Is this some sort of liberal guilt thing you are trying to push on me?

Is this your rebuttal?

just playing around, don't take offense. If you have learned anything about me I would hope it is that I have a sense of humor.

-Alex :)

[R_TAYLOR]

This is the first time I am voting democrat in my life....I cant stand McCain. I will go for Obama this time.

Voting for Obama will give Obama the supreme court.In the past some Republican appointees have turned liberal like Kennedy.Louisiana state law allows that a child molester can be put to death.A man who did this to his 8 year old stepdaughter was sentenced to death and this morning the supreme court ruled it cruel and unusual punishment.That is what you get with a liberal court. Poor little girl gets little justice.

[pjc]

This is the first time I am voting democrat in my life....I cant stand McCain. I will go for Obama this time.

Say goodbye to some of your liberties.

Why do you dislike McCain so much that you would vote for a socialist?

[X10racer]

Say goodbye to some of your liberties.

Why do you dislike McCain so much that you would vote for a socialist?

Every election I hear the same bullcrap .This time I will give the black kid a chance. I haven’t seen a democrat with balls and charisma since JFK. I like him

[9Iron]

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.
Verify at: http://************/zob77

2. $2..2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. $2..5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../01/ldt.0.html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...01/ldt.01.html


Great research on these topics.

Funding, taxes, Aid are all based of $

think about this,
We have seen imigrants for years, the 60's and 70's allowed cities "safe harbour"
for people escaping war torn countries (central Americas) to flee and settle here.
It has gotten out of hand since. So look at it at a money value.
What if you develop some way to make the IA want to join up?
Your W2 & W4's, if you can prove your citizenship or work approval, then you can file for any exemptions.
If not, you can only file single and zero dependents.
The employers need some simple guideline to follow, because its pretty scarey for them now.
Once the IA come to gripes with the reality of the situation, they will adapt.
Deportation would be such an unneeded alternative. Another savings.
Maybe apply federal income tax to money leaving the country.
Again if the IA can prove they already paid it on there income tax they would be exempt.

Yeah, just some thoughts. But something to think about.

[pjc]

Every election I hear the same bullcrap .This time I will give the black kid a chance. I haven’t seen a democrat with balls and charisma since JFK. I like him

Bullcrap? Let me state facts. I have spent many years on the front line fighting for our OHV liberties. The major enviro-corporations have stated flat out that they want OHV use eliminated on public lands. My activities with the BLM spanned the end of the Clinton admin and the beginning of the Bush admin with responsibilities to represent race organizers in Southern Nevada. The tone during the Clinton admin was to curtail our activities at every opportunity. With the Bush admin, a decree was established to legitimize OHV use on public lands. That's a vast contrast.

B Hussein's "Balls"? Give me a break! All this candidate has done is to spew platitudes for the gleeful absorptions of "cult like" morons.

Charisma? Who gives a rats arse about stage ability when leadership and strength in decision is what matters.

Now, back to the question, why do you hate McCain so much?

[pappawheely]

I haven’t seen a democrat with charisma since JFK. I like him

Hitler was a socialist with charisma too. How about some competency? Balls? everytime he has been met with any opposition to the people in his life he has thrown them under the bus and claimed he never knew them. That's cowardly not ballsy. You are voting for him because he's black? You should stick to voting on American Idol and leave the politics to people willing to make an educated choice.

[X10racer]

Hitler was a socialist with charisma too. How about some competency? Balls? everytime he has been met with any opposition to the people in his life he has thrown them under the bus and claimed he never knew them. That's cowardly not ballsy. You are voting for him because he's black? You should stick to voting on American Idol and leave the politics to people willing to make an educated choice.

It’s just my opinion that is why I don’t discuss politics anywhere. I just don’t agree with your views. Forget I posted in this section of the board. I will still vote for BO.
And btw who the **** are you to tell me who to vote for? That is some nerve

[hangten33]

This is all because Dems are in congress? There is no other reason and this would not have happened if the Rep. were still in? This is a question, not a statement.

-Alex

Alex, I don't know if you remember this but Nancy Pelosi and her gang of morons kept on crying out to the nation that they would be so much change in their "first 100 days". They sure did change things. Now there is another moron calling for change!:mad::mad:

[Alex Paterson]

It’s just my opinion that is why I don’t discuss politics anywhere. I just don’t agree with your views. Forget I posted in this section of the board. I will still vote for BO.
And btw who the **** are you to tell me who to vote for? That is some nerve

If Dem's have a different opinion then republicans then the Dem's are a bunch of whining, no good liberals...didn't you know that!

I should not post in here either, its really single sided and the ones behind the thread are not open to any other way of thinking then there own, at least the ones who like to sling Internet quotes and articles and refer to the some candidates with their initials in a effort to prove a point about a man's character. They can blame the democrats for the demise of the economy but we can not hold any fault against our current, republican president.

-Alex (staying out of this)

[R_TAYLOR]

Hitler was a socialist with charisma too. How about some competency? Balls? everytime he has been met with any opposition to the people in his life he has thrown them under the bus and claimed he never knew them. That's cowardly not ballsy. You are voting for him because he's black? You should stick to voting on American Idol and leave the politics to people willing to make an educated choice.

Nice response,but when you are dealing with the Jerry Springer crowd its falling on deaf ears.These people wont see the chnge BO is talking about till it bites them hard in the rear.

[pappawheely]

It’s just my opinion that is why I don’t discuss politics anywhere. I just don’t agree with your views. Forget I posted in this section of the board. I will still vote for BO.
And btw who the **** are you to tell me who to vote for? That is some nerve

Yes, I have nerve. I excercise my rights to free speech. You posted twice about voting for Obama. I have come up with a new system that will work for both of us. It's called the "hollywood system". You can vote for the candidate with the great smile who talks about rainbows and puppys. He/she can be the President and make all the speeches and public events. When a serious decision needs to be made, they call in the stunt double who actually knows how many states are in the union to make the decisions. Just a thought.

[dan200]

It’s just my opinion that is why I don’t discuss politics anywhere. I just don’t agree with your views. Forget I posted in this section of the board. I will still vote for BO.
And btw who the **** are you to tell me who to vote for? That is some nerve


Vote for whoever you want but do some research. Charisma is not a political asset. Strong and confident works better. The infomercials on late night tv sound nice and the people are charismatic as well. But go and buy an ab roller and then tell me that it was a good decision. You will soon see what a charlatan is. Obama is bad for America.

[DaveGores]

If Dem's have a different opinion then republicans then the Dem's are a bunch of whining, no good liberals...didn't you know that!

I keep hearing that but I rarely see proof. Quite often I see substantiated and well-reasoned arguments falling on deaf ears. Don't bother quoting Pat as a rebuttal. There's more than one conservative posting in this thread.

"I don't care what you say. I'm going to vote for him anyway."

If there's a well-reasoned argument to be heard hear, I'm definitely missing it.

"It’s just my opinion that is why I don’t discuss politics anywhere."

I've also heard this line over and over. In my mind it equates to nothing more than "I really don't know what I'm talking about and I have no reasoned argument for my position, but I'm just going to do the politically correct thing."

I should not post in here either, its really single sided and the ones behind the thread are not open to any other way of thinking then there own, at least the ones who like to sling Internet quotes and articles and refer to the some candidates with their initials in a effort to prove a point about a man's character. They can blame the democrats for the demise of the economy but we can not hold any fault against our current, republican president.

Let's make a deal. You (figuratively) come up something other than emotional rhetoric and I might agree to "open my mind". When you have logical arguments to back up the statements you make, you're a lot less likely to be persuaded. No one said Republicans were completely faultless. We're just pointing out the empty promises made by the Democrats before the Congressional elections.

[JrSyko]

It’s just my opinion that is why I don’t discuss politics anywhere. I just don’t agree with your views. Forget I posted in this section of the board. I will still vote for BO.
And btw who the **** are you to tell me who to vote for? That is some nerve

Don't let the mob try and sway your opinion, they just love to attack those who's views differ from theirs. They were dead wrong with Bush and are still really bitter about it.

[9Iron]

Vote for whoever you want but do some research. Charisma is not a political asset. Strong and confident works better. The infomercials on late night tv sound nice and the people are charismatic as well. ... You will soon see what a charlatan is.

Research it, if that candidate is what you feel
is the right direction, punch the card!

[pjc]

Don't let the mob try and sway your opinion, they just love to attack those who's views differ from theirs.


Let's be specific Travis - we try to sway people whom have done a really poor job of forming an opinion.

Sometimes it works, and sometimes it does not.


They were dead wrong with Bush and are still really bitter about it.

How was that?

Lemme see..

* Iraq is lost.
* Osama will attack again.


Your turn..

[tpatkins]

Originally Posted by dan200
Vote for whoever you want but do some research. Charisma is not a political asset. Strong and confident works better. The infomercials on late night tv sound nice and the people are charismatic as well. ... You will soon see what a charlatan is.


Oh ya! and being able to form complete understandable sentences helps too!

[dan200]

Tpatkins, I am not sure I understand your post. Are my sentences unclear or are you talking about someone else?

[X10racer]

Let's be specific Travis - we try to sway people whom have done a really poor job of forming an opinion.

Sometimes it works, and sometimes it does not.


PJC, do you think you help your cause by givin’ me negative points in my rep?
You called me a fool without even knowing me. I take that personal. Who the **** are you to validate my point of view. Self righteous prick. I am out.

[dan200]

No name calling boys!

[JrSyko]

Let's be specific Travis - we try to sway people whom have done a really poor job of forming an opinion.

Sometimes it works, and sometimes it does not.



How was that?

Lemme see..

* Iraq is lost.
* Osama will attack again.


Your turn..

Iraq IS lost, thanks to Bush's inability to put forth an exit strategy and a post occupation strategy. Or perhaps it was simply the fact he didn't care. He got what he wanted and that was SH. Good job Bush! And your right Osama very well may attack again because Bush never caught him. He was too busy wasting resources in Iraq and now we are once again paying the price in Afganistan as that country slips back into terrorist hands.

And here's one for all you oil/Bush lovers, wasn't the war suppose to pay for itself off of the oil proceeds? How about we just start taking their oil since we saved their butts right? I don't see anyone arguing for that. It could be our own little off-shore oil reserve and all our oil problems would be all solved!

[DEZERTSUB]

I'm a little confused here, maybe some of you with more insight can help me out.

People have been saying that the war was for oil, I would like to know where that originated. If the war was really for oil, WHERE IS THE OIL???

[RyanWiW]

Oil, WMD's or whatever, it doesnt really matter. Saddam was an evil dictator who needed to be removed from power one way or another. I praise Bush (and all of our soldiers) for going in there and taking care of business. And dont forget, for this country to go to war, there needs to be a majority vote in congress. Bush didn't push the war button all by himself.

[pappawheely]

Iraq IS lost,! You are in a parallel universe.

[R_TAYLOR]

Iraq is lost?? When things were not going so well Iraq was front page news.Now that the surge is working the press ignores it.So predictable those lefties are.And I thought the evil Bush and Cheney went in there for the oil.The US can level Iraq in a minute if they choose so I wouldnt be so quick and exited to see us defaeted.We can only be defeated from pinheads within.

[pjc]

You called me a fool without even knowing me.


Wait... Was it not you that posted you will vote for B. Hussein because of his Charisma?

Case closed.

[pjc]

Iraq IS lost,


Now Travis.. Even B. Hussein is happy with the progress. With your apparent bias it's easy to lump you in with the fringe lunatics of Code Pink. Would you complain?


He was too busy wasting resources in Iraq and now we are once again paying the price in Afganistan as that country slips back into terrorist hands.


Says Travis?

Care to site a source a bit more middle of left than the Daily KOS?


And here's one for all you oil/Bush lovers, wasn't the war suppose to pay for itself off of the oil proceeds? How about we just start taking their oil since we saved their butts right? I don't see anyone arguing for that. It could be our own little off-shore oil reserve and all our oil problems would be all solved!

Hmmm... In another thread you detailed the evilness of the speculators for the oil mess. What is it now?

[pappawheely]

Iraq IS lost, thanks to Bush's inability to put forth an exit strategy and a post occupation strategy. Or perhaps it was simply the fact he didn't care. He got what he wanted and that was SH. Good job Bush! And your right Osama very well may attack again because Bush never caught him. He was too busy wasting resources in Iraq and now we are once again paying the price in Afganistan as that country slips back into terrorist hands.

And here's one for all you oil/Bush lovers, wasn't the war suppose to pay for itself off of the oil proceeds? How about we just start taking their oil since we saved their butts right? I don't see anyone arguing for that. It could be our own little off-shore oil reserve and all our oil problems would be all solved!

After the US congress approved intervention in Iraq and the United Nations Issued the resolution that allowed the coalition to invade. The liberals (after voting to go to war) started lamenting defeat from the start. Remember the sand storm that had to be waited out. That was their first attempt to demoralize the nation about the war. There was a constant barrage of negative defeatism from the leftwing media throughout the war claiming we would lose and blaming Bush. Bush was the only person who took us to war according to them. When reminded most had voted for the war then it was "Bush tricked us". The reasons for the war were to make money for Bush's buddies and to take the oil. Then the truth started to come out about the oil for food scandal. The people who were most vocal in their opposition to the war were all making millions of dollars while the Iraqi people suffered. People went without medicine and food while Kofi Annan, Jacques Chirac, The Germans and the Russians made money at their expense. It was truly dispicable but the outcry from the liberal press was non-existant. Bush, the military and America were constantly demonized. Remember Murtha calling our troops murderers? Have you heard anything about the cases lately? Did you know that most of the charges have been dropped and the soldiers freed and that Murtha might be sued? Only one case is still pending because they are trying to save face. Remember all the liberals gleefully reporting troop casualties, keeping score in their war against our own nation? Remember all the libs claiming the surge would fail? Remember the obsession with an exit strategy? They could not wait to claim defeat and run away so they could score political points at the cost of our nation. Then they started calling Iraq another Vietnam. It almost was. Not because our troops were losing, but because like in Vietnam the politicians were trying to lose the war inspite of our troops. We are winning the war, the liberals have lost. Iraq is now lost in their minds. That is why I don't agree with liberals like Travis. They pass themselves off as more caring than everyone else but they didn't care about the Iraqi citizens who were victimized by Saddam. They didn't care about the most honorable and selfless people in our nation, The troops. All they care about is power. They want to take away all our freedoms and don't care how they do it. Conservatives are always accused of the worst things and I agree there are bad people in every group but when I look at oppression in the world today it is all coming from the left. Political correctness is nothing more than censorship. Class warfare, racism, they are all weapons of the left. They don't let kids keep score in sports anymore because they claim they don't want losers but they actually don't want winners. That's pure communist socialism and I can't figure out why that looks appealing to anyone with a mind, a heart or a desire for freedom.

[gunit]

This is the first time I am voting democrat in my life....I cant stand McCain. I will go for Obama this time.

Go ahead, just drink the cool-aid.

[pappawheely]

After the US congress approved intervention in Iraq and the United Nations Issued the resolution that allowed the coalition to invade. The liberals (after voting to go to war) started lamenting defeat from the start. Remember the sand storm that had to be waited out. That was their first attempt to demoralize the nation about the war. There was a constant barrage of negative defeatism from the leftwing media throughout the war claiming we would lose and blaming Bush. Bush was the only person who took us to war according to them. When reminded most had voted for the war then it was "Bush tricked us". The reasons for the war were to make money for Bush's buddies and to take the oil. Then the truth started to come out about the oil for food scandal. The people who were most vocal in their opposition to the war were all making millions of dollars while the Iraqi people suffered. People went without medicine and food while Kofi Annan, Jacques Chirac, The Germans and the Russians made money at their expense. It was truly dispicable but the outcry from the liberal press was non-existant. Bush, the military and America were constantly demonized. Remember Murtha calling our troops murderers? Have you heard anything about the cases lately? Did you know that most of the charges have been dropped and the soldiers freed and that Murtha might be sued? Only one case is still pending because they are trying to save face. Remember all the liberals gleefully reporting troop casualties, keeping score in their war against our own nation? Remember all the libs claiming the surge would fail? Remember the obsession with an exit strategy? They could not wait to claim defeat and run away so they could score political points at the cost of our nation. Then they started calling Iraq another Vietnam. It almost was. Not because our troops were losing, but because like in Vietnam the politicians were trying to lose the war inspite of our troops. We are winning the war, the liberals have lost. Iraq is now lost in their minds. That is why I don't agree with liberals like Travis. They pass themselves off as more caring than everyone else but they didn't care about the Iraqi citizens who were victimized by Saddam. They didn't care about the most honorable and selfless people in our nation, The troops. All they care about is power. They want to take away all our freedoms and don't care how they do it. Conservatives are always accused of the worst things and I agree there are bad people in every group but when I look at oppression in the world today it is all coming from the left. Political correctness is nothing more than censorship. Class warfare, racism, they are all weapons of the left. They don't let kids keep score in sports anymore because they claim they don't want losers but they actually don't want winners. That's pure communist socialism and I can't figure out why that looks appealing to anyone with a mind, a heart or a desire for freedom.


No reply from the lefty's? It's amazing how quiet it gets when you remind people of the truth, not the propaganda that floods our press. So many lies are told over and over again until they are considered the truth. Surpluses as far as the eye can see, Bush stole the election, blood for oil, we have already lost the war, Katrina, the global warming farce and on and on.

[R_TAYLOR]

Papawheely, very well done.I guess you told them how the cow ate the cabbage. (thats a redneck saying)

[randy s]

Papawheely, very well done.I guess you told them how the cow ate the cabbage. (thats a redneck saying)

imagine that.

[Infidel Racing Team]

imagine that.

Check your Profile, I left you something that applies to this situation....:D

[JrSyko]

After the US congress approved intervention in Iraq and the United Nations Issued the resolution that allowed the coalition to invade. The liberals (after voting to go to war) started lamenting defeat from the start. Remember the sand storm that had to be waited out. That was their first attempt to demoralize the nation about the war. There was a constant barrage of negative defeatism from the leftwing media throughout the war claiming we would lose and blaming Bush. Bush was the only person who took us to war according to them. When reminded most had voted for the war then it was "Bush tricked us". The reasons for the war were to make money for Bush's buddies and to take the oil. Then the truth started to come out about the oil for food scandal. The people who were most vocal in their opposition to the war were all making millions of dollars while the Iraqi people suffered. People went without medicine and food while Kofi Annan, Jacques Chirac, The Germans and the Russians made money at their expense. It was truly dispicable but the outcry from the liberal press was non-existant. Bush, the military and America were constantly demonized. Remember Murtha calling our troops murderers? Have you heard anything about the cases lately? Did you know that most of the charges have been dropped and the soldiers freed and that Murtha might be sued? Only one case is still pending because they are trying to save face. Remember all the liberals gleefully reporting troop casualties, keeping score in their war against our own nation? Remember all the libs claiming the surge would fail? Remember the obsession with an exit strategy? They could not wait to claim defeat and run away so they could score political points at the cost of our nation. Then they started calling Iraq another Vietnam. It almost was. Not because our troops were losing, but because like in Vietnam the politicians were trying to lose the war inspite of our troops. We are winning the war, the liberals have lost. Iraq is now lost in their minds. That is why I don't agree with liberals like Travis. They pass themselves off as more caring than everyone else but they didn't care about the Iraqi citizens who were victimized by Saddam. They didn't care about the most honorable and selfless people in our nation, The troops. All they care about is power. They want to take away all our freedoms and don't care how they do it. Conservatives are always accused of the worst things and I agree there are bad people in every group but when I look at oppression in the world today it is all coming from the left. Political correctness is nothing more than censorship. Class warfare, racism, they are all weapons of the left. They don't let kids keep score in sports anymore because they claim they don't want losers but they actually don't want winners. That's pure communist socialism and I can't figure out why that looks appealing to anyone with a mind, a heart or a desire for freedom.

Don't care about "Iraqi citizens who were victimized by Saddam?" I'm sorry, I thought you all claim this was a war about fighting terrorists and keeping America safe? Apparently its about saving the poor Iraqi's now. In that case, all you humanitarians should be demanding we invade places like Dafur, North Korea, etc in order to save those citizens who are being victimized as well. Give me a break, it was never about saving the people and you guys never argued it was so don't claim that now.

To see Rick chime in here and echo your sentiments about saving the Iraqi people is such BS since he's one of the most vocal proponents of just leveling the whole country and sending it back into the dark ages and killing all those "poor Iraqi citizens". You guys can't have it both ways so don't try.

And yes, some "liberals" did vote to go to war but who lead the charge to war and who was the one calling for war? Bush and the rest of the neo-cons. In the face of the neo-cons wrapped in the flag and demanding we fight the terrorists what were they supposed to do (not that is any excuse to sell out and vote for war)? Had they all voted against the war you would have all been demanding they be voted out of office and calling them all sorts of unpatriotic names. Now you use their voting to go to war as some sort of justification to reinforce your faltering position? Lame.

[pappawheely]

And yes, some "liberals" did vote to go to war but who lead the charge to war and who was the one calling for war? Bush and the rest of the neo-cons. In the face of the neo-cons wrapped in the flag and demanding we fight the terrorists what were they supposed to do (not that is any excuse to sell out and vote for war)? Had they all voted against the war you would have all been demanding they be voted out of office and calling them all sorts of unpatriotic names. Now you use their voting to go to war as some sort of justification to reinforce your faltering position? Lame.

It seems like Bill Clinton was the one calling for war. You just re-inforced my statement. Those are some real leaders. They voted for war because they didn't want to be called names? The quotes below are all true and many of them before Bush even got elected. The truth just doesn't match your perception of the facts. I'm sure you can spin these statements, that's what the left does so well.

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them.
That is our bottom line."
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998-Truth!
This was a quote from President Clinton during a presentation at the Pentagon defending a decision to conduct military strikes against Iraq.

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear.
We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998-Truth!
Bill Clinton went to the Pentagon on this occasion to be briefed by top military officials about Iraq and weapons of mass destruction.
His remarks followed that briefing.

"Iraq is a long way from USA but, what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998-Truth!
This is a quote from Albright during an appearance at Ohio State University by Albright, who was Secretary of State for Bill Clinton.
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998-Truth!
This was at the same Ohio State University appearance as Madeline Albright.
"We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S.Constitution and Laws, to take necessary actions, (including, if appropriate,
air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction
programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998-Truth!
According to the U.S. Senate website, the text of this letter was signed by several Senators, both Democrat and Republican, including Senator John McCain and Joseph Lieberman."Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998-Truth!
The text of this statement by Nancy Pelosi is posted on her congressional website.
"Hussein has .. chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999-Truth!
This was from an appearance Albright made in Chicago.
She was addressing the embargo of Iraq that was in effect at the time and criticism that it may have prevented needed medical supplies from getting into the country. Albright said, "There has never been an embargo against food and medicine. It's just that Hussein has just not chosen to spend his money on that. Instead, he has chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction, and palaces for his cronies."

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs
continue a pace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001Truth!
The only letter with this quote from December 5, 2001 that we could find did not include the participation of Senator Bob Graham, but it was signed nine other senators including Democrat Joe Lieberman.
It urged President Bush to take quicker action against Iraq.
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002-Truth!
These were remarks from Senator Levin to a Senate committee on that date.
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002-Truth!This and the quote below was part of prepared remarks for a speech in San Francisco to The Commonwealth Club.

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002-Truth!
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002-Truth!
Part of a speech he gave at Johns Hopkins.

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998.
We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities.
Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002-Truth!
On the floor of the Senate during debate over the resolution that would authorize using force against Iraq.
He was urging caution about going to war and commented that even though there was confidence about the weapons in Iraq, there had not been the need to take military action for a number of years and he asked why there would be the need at that point.
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002-Truth!
Senator Kerry's comments were made to the Senate as part of the same debate over the resolution to use force against Saddam Hussein.
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated
the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002-Truth!
Senator Rockefeller's statements were a part of the debate over using force against Saddam Hussein.
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his
chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002-Truth!
Senator Waxman's contribution to the Senate debate over going to war.
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological
weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program.
He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002-Truth!
Senator Clinton acknowledged the threat of Saddam Hussein but said she did not feel that using force at that time was a good option.

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime He presents a
particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his
continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction
So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ..."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan.23.2003-Truth!
In a speech to Georgetown University.

[randy s]

everyone in the house and senate ought to be run out of town along with the lobbyists and all the rest of the special interest cockroaches and it should all be re-structured. no one there gives a flyin' f--k about you or i. democrap or repelican. the whole system is ill [sick is to good of a description]. throw em' all out and start over.

[dan200]

everyone in the house and senate ought to be run out of town along with the lobbyists and all the rest of the special interest cockroaches and it should all be re-structured. no one there gives a flyin' f--k about you or i. democrap or repelican. the whole system is ill [sick is to good of a description]. throw em' all out and start over.

Seconded.

What is the chance of total reform? I have considered pulling my stakes, breaking down camp and running to Mexico. This plan is five years away. Already got a lot at the beach in Rocky Point. Does this make me Un-American?

[JrSyko]

everyone in the house and senate ought to be run out of town along with the lobbyists and all the rest of the special interest cockroaches and it should all be re-structured. no one there gives a flyin' f--k about you or i. democrap or repelican. the whole system is ill [sick is to good of a description]. throw em' all out and start over.

I third that....best thing said yet.

[Mike @ pit b]

everyone in the house and senate ought to be run out of town along with the lobbyists and all the rest of the special interest cockroaches and it should all be re-structured. no one there gives a flyin' f--k about you or i. democrap or repelican. the whole system is ill [sick is to good of a description]. throw em' all out and start over.

Fourthed



I have considered pulling my stakes, breaking down camp and running to Mexico. This plan is five years away. Already got a lot at the beach in Rocky Point. Does this make me Un-American?

Un-American? That's what make us America. That's what made this country. Going into another country uninvited and stake a claim. That's our calling card.:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D (Take that with a grain of salt people)

Mike

[Infidel Racing Team]

Seconded.

What is the chance of total reform? I have considered pulling my stakes, breaking down camp and running to Mexico. This plan is five years away. Already got a lot at the beach in Rocky Point. Does this make me Un-American?

RP...Good choice! I bet your lot has tripled in value in the last 2 years....

[dan200]

RP...Good choice! I bet your lot has tripled in value in the last 2 years....

It tripled in value since we have had it and probably more by now. We have the electricity coming from the grid down there so we don't have to do the generator bs like lots of the las conchas houses I guess have. Another cool thing about our little community is it has its own water treatment thing. All the houses get good h20 from the ocean somehow. Its at Playa Encanto" about ten minutes from the Pink Cadillac.

I doesn't matter what the land is worth because it ain't for sale. I plan on spending a lengthy retirement down there and if I drop dead sitting on the patio at Manny's you will know that I died a happy man.:)

[Mike @ pit b]

Sounds like a damn good plan Dan

[pappawheely]

everyone in the house and senate ought to be run out of town along with the lobbyists and all the rest of the special interest cockroaches and it should all be re-structured. no one there gives a flyin' f--k about you or i. democrap or repelican. the whole system is ill [sick is to good of a description]. throw em' all out and start over.

Seconded.

What is the chance of total reform? I have considered pulling my stakes, breaking down camp and running to Mexico. This plan is five years away. Already got a lot at the beach in Rocky Point. Does this make me Un-American?

I third that....best thing said yet.

Fourthed



Un-American? That's what make us America. That's what made this country. Going into another country uninvited and stake a claim. That's our calling card.:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D (Take that with a grain of salt people)

Mike

I think we just created world peace, throw the bums out!!!!!:D

[Infidel Racing Team]

It tripled in value since we have had it and probably more by now. We have the electricity coming from the grid down there so we don't have to do the generator bs like lots of the las conchas houses I guess have. Another cool thing about our little community is it has its own water treatment thing. All the houses get good h20 from the ocean somehow. Its at Playa Encanto" about ten minutes from the Pink Cadillac.

I doesn't matter what the land is worth because it ain't for sale. I plan on spending a lengthy retirement down there and if I drop dead sitting on the patio at Manny's you will know that I died a happy man.:)

I know where it is....Nice community. Do an extra room, I might drop by once in awhile;)

[R_TAYLOR]

Travis, I said we could level the place in a minute.I didnt say we should.You liberals are just to french like.

[dan200]

I know where it is....Nice community. Do an extra room, I might drop by once in awhile;)
Big garage and plenty of extra rooms are the plan. Come on by (we need to build it first though)

[bajafox]

Big garage and plenty of extra rooms are the plan. Come on by (we need to build it first though)

If you build it, they will come...:D

[therail]

And btw who the **** are you to tell me who to vote for? That is some nerve
People appalled at the idea of a socialist president.

[therail]

Obama is bad for America.....and that's going to the sig line.

sorry loomis.

[JrSyko]

It seems like Bill Clinton was the one calling for war. You just re-inforced my statement. Those are some real leaders. They voted for war because they didn't want to be called names? The quotes below are all true and many of them before Bush even got elected. The truth just doesn't match your perception of the facts. I'm sure you can spin these statements, that's what the left does so well.

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them.
That is our bottom line."
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998-Truth!
This was a quote from President Clinton during a presentation at the Pentagon defending a decision to conduct military strikes against Iraq.

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear.
We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998-Truth!
Bill Clinton went to the Pentagon on this occasion to be briefed by top military officials about Iraq and weapons of mass destruction.
His remarks followed that briefing.

"Iraq is a long way from USA but, what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998-Truth!
This is a quote from Albright during an appearance at Ohio State University by Albright, who was Secretary of State for Bill Clinton.
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998-Truth!
This was at the same Ohio State University appearance as Madeline Albright.
"We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S.Constitution and Laws, to take necessary actions, (including, if appropriate,
air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction
programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998-Truth!
According to the U.S. Senate website, the text of this letter was signed by several Senators, both Democrat and Republican, including Senator John McCain and Joseph Lieberman."Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998-Truth!
The text of this statement by Nancy Pelosi is posted on her congressional website.
"Hussein has .. chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999-Truth!
This was from an appearance Albright made in Chicago.
She was addressing the embargo of Iraq that was in effect at the time and criticism that it may have prevented needed medical supplies from getting into the country. Albright said, "There has never been an embargo against food and medicine. It's just that Hussein has just not chosen to spend his money on that. Instead, he has chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction, and palaces for his cronies."

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs
continue a pace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001Truth!
The only letter with this quote from December 5, 2001 that we could find did not include the participation of Senator Bob Graham, but it was signed nine other senators including Democrat Joe Lieberman.
It urged President Bush to take quicker action against Iraq.
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002-Truth!
These were remarks from Senator Levin to a Senate committee on that date.
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002-Truth!This and the quote below was part of prepared remarks for a speech in San Francisco to The Commonwealth Club.

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002-Truth!
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002-Truth!
Part of a speech he gave at Johns Hopkins.

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998.
We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities.
Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002-Truth!
On the floor of the Senate during debate over the resolution that would authorize using force against Iraq.
He was urging caution about going to war and commented that even though there was confidence about the weapons in Iraq, there had not been the need to take military action for a number of years and he asked why there would be the need at that point.
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002-Truth!
Senator Kerry's comments were made to the Senate as part of the same debate over the resolution to use force against Saddam Hussein.
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated
the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002-Truth!
Senator Rockefeller's statements were a part of the debate over using force against Saddam Hussein.
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his
chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002-Truth!
Senator Waxman's contribution to the Senate debate over going to war.
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological
weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program.
He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002-Truth!
Senator Clinton acknowledged the threat of Saddam Hussein but said she did not feel that using force at that time was a good option.

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime He presents a
particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his
continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction
So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ..."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan.23.2003-Truth!
In a speech to Georgetown University.

So let me try and understand this, now you're citing "liberals" and their call to arms in order to justify attacking Iraq???? I thought all liberals were just a bunch of tree hugging hippies who decry war? You must really be desperate!

[scott-dsms]

So let me try and understand this, now you're citing "liberals" and their call to arms in order to justify attacking Iraq???? I thought all liberals were just a bunch of tree hugging hippies who decry war? You must really be desperate!

Hi Jr. The point I got from pappawheely is that libs are double-minded. They say anything so long as it suits them. On the one hand they voted for the war, echoed the same sentiments as Bush, many before Bush as stated. and then on the other hand decry the Bush administration for the war in Iraq. Which is it? This or that?

and back to what was originally posted by Pat...Where are all the good times promised by the lefty congress. They were going to make all these changes for the better and from where I'm sitting it is the exact opposite. Things are worse and it's alll GWB's fault. I don't buy it.

[JRod]

:eek::eek:

Hi Jr. The point I got from pappawheely is that libs are double-minded. They say anything so long as it suits them. On the one hand they voted for the war, echoed the same sentiments as Bush, many before Bush as stated. and then on the other hand decry the Bush administration for the war in Iraq. Which is it? This or that?

and back to what was originally posted by Pat...Where are all the good times promised by the lefty congress. They were going to make all these changes for the better and from where I'm sitting it is the exact opposite. has occurred. Things are worse and it's alll GWB's fault. I don't buy it.

Man, I am glad you explained that- For a minute I was starting to think I was liberal as I was agreeing with most of what was printed..... :eek::eek:

Okay, back to my regular right-winged redneck programming... LOL! I feel better already.

[Alex Paterson]

It tripled in value since we have had it and probably more by now. We have the electricity coming from the grid down there so we don't have to do the generator bs like lots of the las conchas houses I guess have. Another cool thing about our little community is it has its own water treatment thing. All the houses get good h20 from the ocean somehow. Its at Playa Encanto" about ten minutes from the Pink Cadillac.

I doesn't matter what the land is worth because it ain't for sale. I plan on spending a lengthy retirement down there and if I drop dead sitting on the patio at Manny's you will know that I died a happy man.:)

I just got back from there, thats funny. We spent five nights and Paradise Villas #16 and it is aGREAT area. We are looking forward to going back.

Alex

[FUD_LIVES]

I've always wondered how someone who was into desert racing could be a liberal democrat. It seems that most groups that are trying to CLOSE the desert to racing are supported by such people.:confused:

[TreyP]

Hi Jr. The point I got from pappawheely is that libs are double-minded. They say anything so long as it suits them. On the one hand they voted for the war, echoed the same sentiments as Bush, many before Bush as stated. and then on the other hand decry the Bush administration for the war in Iraq. Which is it? This or that?

and back to what was originally posted by Pat...Where are all the good times promised by the lefty congress. They were going to make all these changes for the better and from where I'm sitting it is the exact opposite. Things are worse and it's alll GWB's fault. I don't buy it.


I think ALL of you are missing the point. Be it the Left or the Right they almost all are trying for thier own little piece of the golden power ring. They don't care what the PEOPLE want, they go with the ebbs and tides of what will get them elected.

The system is broken. It is time for CHANGE. Too bad there isn't a person out there that is willing to put thier life on the line for it. It will never happen as long as we have lobbist and the current power base in Washington running this country. That and the simple fact that the American people are stupidly happy with the state of fear and the status quo. The power base loves this right/left ignorance. As long as it is there they have something to blame for the problem instead of themselves. Do you think any of them want it to go away? Not as long as they are getting money for thier re-elections and payed dinners.

Think about it, how many of these elected officals go into public office with minimal fortunes and leave with multi-million fortunes? How would you like to have a job that you "work" at for 4 years and come out with lifelong benefits from?

Sorry for the rant, but I am sick of the scum that have taken over the greatest county in the world for their own petty benefit. Toss all of them out of office and start again with people that want to do what is right for this country. Take the coruption out of politics.

Vote for Randy S.....:D

[pappawheely]

So let me try and understand this, now you're citing "liberals" and their call to arms in order to justify attacking Iraq???? I thought all liberals were just a bunch of tree hugging hippies who decry war? You must really be desperate!

Well, obviously it was not only Bush who wanted to get rid of Saddam Hussein. I don't know how it makes me desperate when the truth undermines your belief system. So much of what you claim is the truth is nothing more than left wing propaganda. And remember, oil is 100% natural. :D

[DaveGores]

Don't care about "Iraqi citizens who were victimized by Saddam?" I'm sorry, I thought you all claim this was a war about fighting terrorists and keeping America safe? Apparently its about saving the poor Iraqi's now. In that case, all you humanitarians should be demaning we invade places like Dafur, North Korea, etc in order to save those citizens who are being victimized as well. Give me a break, it was never about saving the people and you guys never argued it was so don't claim that now.

Our reasons for war were very clean cut. Our invasion of Iraq, and subsequent overthrow of Saddam and his regime, has obviously had several positive side effects, one of them being freedom for the Iraqi people. If you actually read Papawheely's post, you would see he never said anything about how Saddam's treatment of Iraqi citizens was our reason for invading. Distorting his post doesn't help prove your point.

And yes, some "liberals" did vote to go to war but who lead the charge to war and who was the one calling for war? Bush and the rest of the neo-cons. In the face of the neo-cons wrapped in the flag and demanding we fight the terrorists what were they supposed to do (not that is any excuse to sell out and vote for war)? Had they all voted against the war you would have all been demanding they be voted out of office and calling them all sorts of unpatriotic names. Now you use their voting to go to war as some sort of justification to reinforce your faltering position? Lame.

So what's your point? The democrats shouldn't be held accountable for their votes because you say "Bush lead the charge?" That's truly pathetic. I hope you realize that you've just said that the Democrats in Congress who voted for the war have no personal integrity. Please explain how Pappawheely's and my positions are faltering.

So let me try and understand this, now you're citing "liberals" and their call to arms in order to justify attacking Iraq???? I thought all liberals were just a bunch of tree hugging hippies who decry war? You must really be desperate!

He was pointing out the inaccuracy of your previous statement. The invasion of Iraq was justified from day one. At the time the Democrats seemed eager to do what was in America's best interest. It didn't take long for them to lose what little spine they had. It never does. His point was very clear. The only desperate person in this thread is you and your incoherent arguments prove just that.

[randy s]

Seconded.

What is the chance of total reform? I have considered pulling my stakes, breaking down camp and running to Mexico. This plan is five years away. Already got a lot at the beach in Rocky Point. Does this make me Un-American?

dan. it does'nt make you un-anything. congratulations on getting your lot. be sure you get your residents card for down there. i've had my outfit on the other side [sf] for over 20 yrs. and it's been great. it's not un-american to want to be able to get up in the morning and go fishing, clamming, exploring, go into town, or work on your place without taking out a bunch of horse manure permits without the stress we have up here alot of the time. just remember that dealing with situations in mexico is'nt necessarily difficult. it's just different. where your place is down there, you won't have many language barriers but if you have a basic working knowledge of border spanish, it will help a bunch and keep you in favor with the locals. back to your question. what's un-american about wanting to live on the beach in an affordable situation? you can't do it here. [but leave your shooters in the u.s.]

[pappawheely]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/img/global/tol-logo.gif (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news)




From The Sunday Times

July 6, 2008


Iraqis lead final purge of Al-Qaeda




Marie Colvin in Mosul


div#related-article-links p a, div#related-article-links p a:visited {color:#06c;**American and Iraqi forces are driving Al-Qaeda in Iraq out of its last redoubt in the north of the country in the culmination of one of the most spectacular victories of the war on terror.
After being forced from its strongholds in the west and centre of Iraq in the past two years, Al-Qaeda’s dwindling band of fighters has made a defiant “last stand” in the northern city of Mosul.
A huge operation to crush the 1,200 fighters who remained from a terrorist force once estimated at more than 12,000 began on May 10.
Operation Lion’s Roar, in which the Iraqi army combined forces with the Americans’ 3rd Armoured Cavalry Regiment, has already resulted in the death of Abu Khalaf, the Al-Qaeda leader, and the capture of more than 1,000 suspects.
Related Links



Al-Qaeda driven from Mosul after bloody siege (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article4276323.ece)


Al-Qaeda finds three safe havens for training (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article4251551.ece)


We're winning the War on Terror (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/gerard_baker/article4221376.ece)





The group has been reduced to hit-and-run attacks, including one that killed two off-duty policemen yesterday, and sporadic bombings aimed at killing large numbers of officials and civilians.
Last Friday I joined the 2nd Iraqi Division as it supported local police in a house-to-house search for one such bomb after intelligence pointed to a large explosion today.
Even in the district of Zanjali, previously a hotbed of the insurgency, it was possible to accompany an Iraqi colonel on foot through streets of breeze-block houses studded with bullet holes. Hundreds of houses were searched without resistance but no bomb was found, only 60kg of explosives.
American and Iraqi leaders believe that while it would be premature to write off Al-Qaeda in Iraq, the Sunni group has lost control of its last urban base in Mosul and its remnants have been largely driven into the countryside to the south.
Nouri al-Maliki, Iraq’s prime minister, who has also led a crackdown on the Shi’ite Mahdi Army in Basra and Baghdad in recent months, claimed yesterday that his government had “defeated” terrorism.
“They were intending to besiege Baghdad and control it,” Maliki said. “But thanks to the will of the tribes, security forces, army and all Iraqis, we defeated them.”
The number of foreign fighters coming over the border from Syria to bolster Al-Qaeda’s numbers is thought to have declined to as few as 20 a month, compared with 120 a month at its peak.
Brigadier General Abdullah Abdul, a senior Iraqi commander, said: “We’ve limited their movements with check-points. They are doing small attacks and trying big ones, but they’re mostly not succeeding.”
Major-General Mark Hertling, American commander in the north, said: “I think we’re at the irreversible point.”

[Infidel Racing Team]

Sunni and Shiite hatred is so deeply rooted it will only end with Islam itself. (Mark my words), Now if you throw another tribe like the Kurds into the mix , well that is a perfect recipe for disaster.

The concept of Iraqi nationalism is way weaker than their Religion......No wonder, since Paul Newman is older than the Iraq concept and their tribal and religious hate goes back to the death of Mohammad.

Iraq is a lost battle already, People that think a concept so strange as Democracy in their culture will hold together a fictitious country as Iraq is dreaming. Arabs only know and respect the alpha male concept, in reality it takes someone like Saddam to hold artificially that land together....

[pappawheely]

What??? You miss Saddam? There was a time when nobody would think the U.S. and Japan would be anything but mortal enemies. Once the people of Iraq taste freedom they will realize war and death are best left as bad memories. Your pessimism knows no bounds.

[Infidel Racing Team]

What??? You miss Saddam? There was a time when nobody would think the U.S. and Japan would be anything but mortal enemies. Once the people of Iraq taste freedom they will realize war and death are best left as bad memories. Your pessimism knows no bounds.

In reverse order, historically that region has NEVER been successfully conquered. Even the almighty Roman Empire struggled to hold Parthia & Persia in their borders, they were occupied at great expense by the Romans to be abandoned because their unconquerability.

As you know, Iraq is a fairly new state artificially created by the British Empire, it hold basically 3 tribes who hold a millennial grudge based on RELIGION. It is culturally engraved in their everyday and there is no ending of it any time soon. Saddam who came from the Sunni Tribal system held that country together with an Iron fist and a secular government, fear was the only thing strong enough to appease the rivalry.

Now, you overrate Democracy…..Specially a Democracy held at gun point and surges. I have said this before , some cultures were not meant to work as Democracies. Especially Arabic Nations.

A clear example of this is Venezuela,(not Arabic) after decades of struggle finally they had a credible democratic system to elect their leaders…..
What was the 1st thing they did?
Elect a dictator! (Hugo Chavez), Their Democracy ended where it started…..

As John Adams eloquently said it:

"Democracy... while it lasts is more bloody than either aristocracy or monarchy. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide."

This is a clear example of why countries with a huge educational disparity,no team work culture, a huge gap in their social classes and no historic appreciation for human rights don’t do well in a democratic setup.

When the power is given to those who have been repressed for generations, they will most likely react radically……

Mexico in this past election almost suffered the same fate as Venezuela . Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador was almost elected into office….This is a man that would make any US liberal look like Karl Rove. This is old school Marxism at its best. That is why I laugh when you guys call me a Liberal, I am as right wing as they come south of your border.:D

What is the alternative? I would agree Democracy is an ideal, but it has to be attained within the country, never by external force.

Saddam is indefensible, he was a bad dude and no one will miss him, but pragmatism indicates he had a working formula for holding an artificial country together as Iraq.

I can only see the big winner in all this will be the Iranian Theocratic System. All of this was easily foreseeable before the invasion of Iraq. The Shiite majority will ally with Iran, The Sunni minority will be caught in ethinical cleansing and endless guerrilla wars funded by Sunni Saudi Arabia and the Kurds will be wipped of the map again by Sunni and Turkish forces.

I hope I am wrong, but this scenario is the most likely to occur, unless Israel sticks its hand there and unites these tribes momentarily to fight them..... In any rate, the middle east will be riddle with problems as long as Theocracies have the strong hand.

[dan200]

Saddam is indefensible, he was a bad dude and no one will miss him, but pragmatism indicates he had a working formula for holding an artificial country together as Iraq.


His working formula was genocide.

[Infidel Racing Team]

His working formula was genocide.

You are oversimplifying him, although he used that tool / crime. It makes you think how extreme you have to go to glue together Iraq.

I condemn Saddam, but I am also weary that Iraq will survive as a nation, I don't have an infallible answer to Iraq that accommodates US interests.

All I can think is that a dictator aligned with the US in that region is as good as is going to get......What do you think?

[pappawheely]

You are oversimplifying him, although he used that tool / crime. It makes you think how extreme you have to go to glue together Iraq.


You have lost your mind. :( You are talking about peoples lives. Unspeakable acts of torture and cruelty. Maybe you think that's what it takes but I don't. Iraq has many challenges in the near future but I think everyone deserves freedom or at least the chance to pursue it. That was unattainable under Saddam.

[Infidel Racing Team]

You have lost your mind. :(

Would you agree....Time will tell?

[dan200]

You are oversimplifying him, although he used that tool / crime. It makes you think how extreme you have to go to glue together Iraq.

I condemn Saddam, but I am also weary that Iraq will survive as a nation, I don't have an infallible answer to Iraq that accommodates US interests.

All I can think is that a dictator aligned with the US in that region is as good as is going to get......What do you think?
I am in now way qualified to answer this but I hope democracy will be better welcomed there. The unrest in the middle east is a problem for everyone and considering the US has spent close to 3 trillion dollars to bring democracy there I hope the new leader appreciates this when working out their national policies.

[Infidel Racing Team]

I am in now way qualified to answer this but I hope democracy will be better welcomed there. The unrest in the middle east is a problem for everyone and considering the US has spent close to 3 trillion dollars to bring democracy there I hope the new leader appreciates this when working out their national policies.

Lets say they become democratic and self governed......

Don t you see it more than likely the Shiite majority will push towards a theocracy?

Culturally Shiite Arab nations don't have Church - State separation and they are at least 60% of the population.

I dont see how can anyone change overnight (2-3 generations) their culture.....

[dan200]

Lets say they become democratic and self governed......

Don t you see it more than likely the Shiite majority will push towards a theocracy?

Culturally Shiite Arab nations don't have Church - State separation and they are at least 60% of the population.

I dont see how can anyone change overnight (2-3 generations) their culture.....

I wish I knew what will happen. To merge western and eastern culture will be a diffficult task for sure. It is worth a shot though.

Maybe Obama can run for president over there instead of here and "Change" them.

[R_TAYLOR]

And congess just slipped to 9% approval rating. I wonder how smart they think they are? I say we sweep em all out the door.

[dan200]

And congess just slipped to 9% approval rating. I wonder how smart they think they are? I say we sweep em all out the door.

Can you imagine if your work was evaluated and you got a nine percent approval from your boss? You would get fired. I don't understand why our government can operate against the will of the people. Is this even legal?:mad: