Toyota pre-runner

[CanyonMan]

So I have decided on not using my full size GMC 4x4 to build a pre-runner. My next question is, can anybody suggest a good year toyota to start with to build up? I don't wanna spend a fortune but I do want fuel injection if possible. Also, is a ranger of same year comparable or better than a Toyota? Who makes good kits for Toyota's and how much are they usually? Thanks!!

Lyrch

[In_the_works]

I have a feeling that this thread may get really ugly really fast. In my opinion though, I would suggest going the Ranger route, simply because of the availability and price of the parts. Another reason being that it is much easier to do a slow build up with I-beam set-up. Of course if you have the $3,000 to plunk down all at once for a front end long travel kit, it could go either way. But what do I know, I'm a full size ford guy.

'96 F-150 4x4 ex cab

[YZFster]

I am with u there....once u go fullsize, you never go back.........

Go Big or stay there.

[elcaprerunner]

My buddy has an '88 Toyota 4WD that he just beat the piss out of when it was stock and it held up like a champ. It is a fuel injected 22RE 4 cylinder, its not very fast but it will run forever. Now he is puttin the Total Chaos "Caddy Kit" for 4WD that comes with T100 4WD axles in the front, it is 3 1/2" wider on each side and gets 12" of travel and comes with SAW shocks. Total Chaos also makes a nice 2WD uniball kit with coilovers. Also ATS and Camburg make nice kits for these trucks also. Plan on spending about $3000 or more on a nice working suspension for the front of a Yota. I might be getting a Ranger to build up. They are definately cheaper to but are not as reliable as a Toyota. Camburg makes like a million kits for Rangers as well.

DIRT'S FOR RACING, PRERUNNERS ARE FOR GETTING THERE!

[CanyonMan]

I was considering a 4 cylinder ranger then swapping in an SVO turbo four in it for a little more fun factor. It does seem Rangers are the easiest way to go, experience and money wise. Are Toyota's A-arm front ends are I-beams? Also, what are some good shocks to start with? I am thinking of Bilstein 5100s to start or Kings. Any ideas?

Lyrch

I am also wondering on building a bed cage to run full glass for whatever truck I build . What is the best way to measure and place the mounting points? Is it easiest to measure from existing stock panels then run tubing to those locations? <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by CanyonMan on 10/28/02 12:15 PM (server time).</FONT></P>

[elcaprerunner]

Post deleted by John_Bitting

[JrSyko]

I think that you are mistaken about the Bilsteins.

......and thus starts the shock war!

See ya in the dirt!

[1992f150]

86 and up toyota trucks have EFI (though i think you can get carbed ones too, not sure when they stopped making the 22R...). 86 is the first year they came with A arms. If your getting a 2wd toyota then I hear get an 89 or newer. Suposedly the older 2wds you must run a body lift to clear the tires. The engine you want is the 22RE, the E is for EFI, the carbed version is a 22R.

Azusa: shame of the foothills

[evan_clanin]

go with a 89-95 pick up 2 wd toyota 22re, extra cab

i wana be like austin when i grow up, he gets all the chicks

[CanyonMan]

How hard is it to turbo the enigine or swap in a turbo motor like say from a Supra or something? Anybody out there done that? I gotta have the ponies to beat the phonies!

Lyrch

[Kritter]

If you like to spend money...buy a Tacoma. If you like to go fast in the dirt for relatively less money...buy a Ranger. I have spent a few grand and beat the crap out of my truck and have yet to brake anything. The majority of yota guys on here are always talking about switchin this with that or that and this and then something breaks and they gotta go with this becasue its hot off the market...ford rangers have been proven for 20 years stick with proof!

Tacomas look nice when done proper, but then you are afraid to use it because the cost is so hi.

All anybody says is oh the camber sucks on an Ibeam and steering is hard to get right...majority of the people saying that can't even tell the difference while driving and some of the A arm kits out there are almost as bad..bumpsteer wise and they cost two or three times as much for that same quality of travel.

I am a Ford guy so I advocate ford...Toyotas are good for pounding pavement, but pricey in the dirt.

Kris
"I was thinking the exact same thing about you..."

[fishd00d]

Ya The Piece is a big Pavement Pounder....its even got the stickers on the door....

Go Big Or Go Home
United Jumping Truck Society

[JrSyko]

Doesn't the leader of the "Pavement Pounders" drive a Toyota? I think he proudly displays it down the side of his truck?!

Sorry Fish!

Go Ford or Go Home......On a Trailer!

See ya in the dirt!

[JrSyko]

Damn Fish, you beat me to it!

See ya in the dirt!

[CanyonMan]

Ya know, usually it's Ford vs. Chevy that gets these kind of responses! I'm actually a GM guy at heart, but in truth, if it goes fast instead of just looking fast, then that's fine by me.

Lyrch

[havahockey]

http://prerunners.com/photoalbum/dday2002/dday029169.JPG

This guy is an idiot for using his Tacoma like that...should of stayed on the street.

Go Fords...


Race-Dezert Anonymous - Step #1:
"Hello, my name is Jason. And I'm a Race-Dezertaholic."

[1992f150]

Some trucks come stock with a turbo (22RET i think) but they only made it for like 2 years and its really rare. www.desertspeed.com guy swapped inline 6 supra engine (non turbo).

Azusa: shame of the foothills

[hbprnstr]

Havahockey, why you talking trash on your own truck kid. Don't tell me you are over toyotas and are going to Fords.

[jeff]

Why not build the fullsize 4x4? Can't be much more than a Toyota and you've already got the truck.

I've seen a few nice "long travel" 4x4 IFS trucks and that seems to be a pretty sweet way to go if you gotta have 4wd.

[SJP12]

Your all wrong,

The LEADERS of the "pavement pounders" all drive S-10's like myself, and if there hard core "pavement pounder" they have a "LONG TRAVEL" kit with fiberglass. HA HA..........ITS ALL GOOD............

If youve never been scared your going to slow

[michael]

Seems like you would be money and time ahead by buying one of the dozens of built Yotas or Rangers in the classifides. There seems to be some great deals to me.

Michael <A target="_blank" HREF=http://mkparker.com/goose>mkparker.com/goose</A>

[orvacian]

If you dont mind rolling your truck while offroading, by all means, get a ranger :) If you do build one, keep the ride height low! Rangers will take the most breating and still survive, I will give em that.
Toyotas can be a little expensive to build up but I like em! Now that I think about it, allmost all the trucks that have rolled at UP events were Ford Rangers.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by orvacian on 10/28/02 07:33 PM (server time).</FONT></P>

[1992f150]

prob cuz there are more rangers than any other truck so ofcourse more will roll.

Azusa: shame of the foothills

[2fast_Eddie]

Havahockey, it may look bad, but what a RIDE!!! we were there man, saw you slam down on that first jump. . .it didn't even sound as bad as half of the rest, especially that stock ranger! That's what the truck is for! might as well have fun with it!

Either it's on or it's off. . .<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by 2fast_Eddie on 10/28/02 07:49 PM (server time).</FONT></P>

[orvacian]

No, I dont think thats why. Actually there are about 50/50 Fords to Toyotas at the events. Ask anybody with I-beams how stable they are when hard cornering.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by orvacian on 10/28/02 07:51 PM (server time).</FONT></P>

[cleartoy]

High performance costs money. How fast ya wanna go?

From what ive seen, its easy(but expensive) to pull big travel out of i beam Fords. It will still have a nasty camber curve when all is said and done due to the way it pivots.

Toyotas are expensive to pull even a little travel out of, but they end up handling awesome.

I spent plenty to get my 94 Toyota to cycle 12.5" travel with the TC Uniball and 2.5" coilovers. It handles awesome. I could have gotten way more out of a Ford, but I think the driving experience would not be to my liking.

94 Toyota stdcab 2x4
99 Yamaha YZ250

Got Sand??

[YotaWhoopRunner]

Toyotas started using A arms with their 2wd starting 1984 and for 4wd starting in 1986. The turbo22r's i believe began in 86 with efi until the v6 was introduced in 1988. If I had the chance to start all over again, I think I would buy an old race truck (pre 73 no smog =P) or an already done up prerunner. My old 22r is reliable, but i'll never really be happy with the power. Putting a blower on the thing is just a waste of money and time. It would be cheaper to buy a truck with a better engine than spend the money fixing up a 22r. The only people who really try to get any horsepower out of it are probably doing it because of racing rules. As for sticking the supra motor in it, it will bolt up to the stock bell housing, but you are going to have to do a lot of modification to get it to fit inside the small engine bay. In the end, if you want to have power in your toyota, you are going to need to stick with the v6 or the tacoma.

[havahockey]

I know i'm only joking....it was a lot of fun, but I don't think it was worth the abuse to the truck. Everyday I start finding another thing tweaked from the race.

Time to finish the cage before I pound on it like that again.

Race-Dezert Anonymous - Step #1:
"Hello, my name is Jason. And I'm a Race-Dezertaholic."

[Kritter]

Depends on the driver... I can get squirly with mine or I can keep it pretty controlled. Ruts are hard but they are hard in any small truck..especially Barstow ruts!

Kris
"I was thinking the exact same thing about you..."

[JasonHutter]

Not to bag on Toyota's, because I wouldn't drive anything else. They go over too!

Jason

[ACID_RAIN28]

Rangers are cheap to build, but don't forget that you get what you pay for! The A-arms on the yota are a hundred times more efficicent to cycle than a beam setup. you will end up paying the about the same amount for a good working front end on any mini truck, full size is vise versa

As for the engine the 3.o v6 that ran from 88-to early 90's have a head gasket recall, and they are dogs not to mention, all show no go. Your best bet for motor performance is ...........

www.lcengineering.com they do it all turbos, superchargers and 200+ hp four cylinders

"THE FASTER YOU GO, THE SMOOTHER IT IS!"

[drtdevil93]

no, no, no, no...

toyota vs. ranger: they both have advantages and disadvatages over each other. i am a toyota guy, its all ive ever considered driving. make the choice easier, pick which one you think is prettier.

toyota trucks have come with a-arms a lot longer than 86. my old 79 had them. and i believe they had them back to 76. the trucks werent common in those years, so you dont see lots of them, but they certainly do exist.

the supra motor and truck trans are incompatible. custom bellhousing would be necessary, and the supra's straight 6 basically doesnt fit in the toyota truck, its really long. it can be done, but it isnt easy, and usually not pretty either. the supra motor also isnt built to take the beating a 22re is. power wise, ya it can take it, but physically, its a fine clock, and the 22re is a tank.

erik

[YotaWhoopRunner]

"As for sticking the supra motor in it, it will bolt up to the stock bell housing"

whoops...what I meant to say was that the stock supra bell housing will bolt up to the 22r transmission with out any custom adapters. It's not done much here in desert world, but is done quite frequently with toyota rock crawlers. There is an article about it on offroad.com.

http://www.off-road.com/toyota/tech/supraswap/

Alot of the rice rocket guys get the 7mgte and make some crazy power out of these things.

[Curtis Guise]

You are right about the Toyota 2wd with A-arms. They started in 79 with the basic design that stayed all the way up to the current Tacoma design. The only difference from the 79-83 2wd and 84-95 2wd suspension was the design of the lower ball joint / spindle and how it attached to the lower arm. When I built my first set of arms in Machining class in college I went with the older design because I got more travel out of it.

and of course this was all before I learned about Uni-balls and cut everything off the frame and started over..... what a difference.

[michael_loomis]

geez my old '72 chevy luv (isuzu) had better A-arm design than my '97 Sonoma!!

[Curtis Guise]

Anyone on here do yourself a big favor and don't buy a older truck that came with the turbo. My dad bought a truck a few years ago with a bad motor and turbo and I rebuilt it for him. The cheapest place I found was about $1000 to get a rebuilt turbo for it. They add a minimal amount of HP to the 22R engine. I think they only have 3 or 4lbs of boost or something like that.

The way to go is a Tacoma 3.4 V6 with a TRD supercharger.... 250 + HP


Also someone said something about the 3.0 V6 having a head gasket recall from 88-90. A couple of my friends work at Toyota and I believe they said that all 3.0's from 88-95 had the recall. I have a 90 and a friend had to pull some strings to get mine replaced. I guess they started cutting it off if your truck is over 10 years old.

[geoff]

anyone have the weights of a 22r and 7mg? I would imagine the 7mg making a relatively balanced truck into a nose heavy pig.



"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams." -- Willy Wonka

[havahockey]

"The way to go is a Tacoma 3.4 V6 with a TRD supercharger.... 250 + HP"

When you slap on that TRD Supercharger it REALLY wakes up a Tacoma. They are already pretty quick to begin with, but I've ridden in a few of my friends trucks who have the S/C and it makes a huge difference. You'd be suprised at what sports cars my friends beat at the tracks.

Race-Dezert Anonymous - Step #1:
"Hello, my name is Jason. And I'm a Race-Dezertaholic."

[SDranger]

I agree with Kritter, its all in the driver. anything your not used to is gonna feel weird, but i can get my truck pretty damm sideways with no real problems it seems predictible to me and handles well as far as im concerned

97 Ranger 4x4
02 CR125

[michael_loomis]

how come the taco's with the 3.4 are so much faster than a 4runner with the same motor. my buddies 4runner is a dog . a taco pulling a trailer smokes his 4runner

[cleartoy]

4 Runner is heavier than Taco.

94 Toyota stdcab 2x4
99 Yamaha YZ250

Got Sand??

[orvacian]

I have a 4runner with a 22rte turbo engine and it has much better power then a stock 22re.
It makes about 8psi of boost. Reguardless, Ford has the better motor in the 4.0. There are more aftermarket upgrades for it and the cost is much lower then the 3.0 or 3.4 Toyota.

[fishd00d]

My 3.0 will keep up with the Ford 4.0's untill about end of 4th gear :)

Thats with 33's and stock gears...with the 35's its probley a little slower but still right there.

But yes the 3.0's do suck...noone really makes anything besides headers. And if there is something made its way expensive.

Go with the Toyota 3.4 motor....someday I will probley switch one into my truck.

Go Big Or Go Home
United Jumping Truck Society

[motoxscott]

It's all about the Ford F-250 Superduty !!! My 8" lift will out run any of your Tacoma and Rangers long-travel kits through the roughest sections known to man.

[Curtis Guise]

And I hear that an Automatic sucks allot of power out of them, and 4 runners usually have an automatic. I know my 90 truck with the 3.0 V6 and automatic is a dog compared to my friends with a stick.

[CanyonMan]

Running an automatic reduces rear wheel horsepower by 25% on average. Using a stick only reduces rear wheel horsepower by about 10% max I think. To get more power out of your automatics, try using a synthetic tranny fluid or one like B&M Trickshift. If you have a auto that is getting a bit sloppy, you can run Type F in GMs and several other brands of transmissions. Type F has more friction additives than a Dexron type. Also, put in a shift kit if possible or have the valve body reworked to run more pressure and get better performance. Make sure to always run a tranny cooler, especially in the desert! You can also run synthetics for your differential(s), power steering fluid, t-case, and almost any rotating assembly. You will get longer life and more power running them. As far as engine oil goes, synthetics make about 5 more horsepower than standard oils due to their high flow rates at the same viscosity. My preference is to run a blend of synthetics to regular or run one like Durablend that is already blended. Just a few little tricks from a hot rod guy.

Lyrch

[Kritter]

I think fluids were covered before and it was discovered that the 5 HP (i think that was the figure) was if you changed the engine, tranny and diff to synthetic fluid. I thought the HP loss in an auto was mostly from the TC.

Kris
"I was thinking the exact same thing about you..."

[CanyonMan]

The actual amount of HP picked up from switching to all synthetics varies on comparison to comparison. I've seen some where people picked up almost 20 hp from using synthetics, others only 5 or so. It really depends on the efficiency on the motor to start with I think. Switching to an electric fan is also a good way of freeing up horsepower. ALmost 20 or more can be gained from going to an electric. I switched out the clutch fan in a mustang GT to an electric and it felt like I added an extra cylinder! The difference can be amazing. Underdrive pulleys are another good way of freeing up horsepower, although an upgraded alternator is a good idea. As far as automatics go, the majority of power loss is in the converter, but you still loe some from slippage in the clutch packs. That's why shift kits are a good idea. They hold the clutch packs tighter due to increased fluid pressure. Also, putting in a higher stall converter over stock will really help with off the line performance. It's pretty much the same as dumping the clutch in astick, without all the abuse to the drivetrain.

Lyrch

[Kritter]

I have never seen data on a fan using more then roughly 9HP and that is a direct driven fan...no fan clutch. From a fan clutch it is around 4-7 HP.

The synthetic fluid discussion was actually a percentage, but I think somewhere on a TV show they said a HP amount and there was a huge discussion about this a while back...search for it and you will see what I mean.

Kris
"I was thinking the exact same thing about you..."

[Tim_Price]

I'm lucky enough to have owned both a 4x4 Toy prerunner and a 4x4 Ranger prerunner, both built by Jerry Penhall. I remember when I showed up at Jerry's years ago with the 4x4 Toy he kinda grimaced and said "Didn't I tell you to bring in a Ranger?" But he did a great job. The problem was, of course, front wheel travel on the Toy costs mucho bucks. More than I had at the time. I think the equation came out to something like $200+ an inch. On my second prerunner (the 4x4 Ranger) the cost per inch of travel was much lower. And since the wheelbase on the Ranger was longer (extended cab vs. standard cab Toy) the ride/performance offroad is superior. But I gotta say, the Toy's reliability/quality of build (my bro owns it now) is far, far superior to the Ranger.

[mattrick88]

the decision seems to be a arms vs i beams and toyota vs ford. why not just have the best of both worlds and build an a arm ranger? a good i beam setup will run atleast $5000 and then another $3000 for crossover steering. that brings you to a total of $8000. (yes i know there will be exceptions but this is for a regular customer going to a well known fab shop). a good a arm set up for a ranger will run about $5500-$6500 and will have better geometry than any beam setup....

[mattrick88]

another pic

[kingmotox]

i heard that trucks never going to be finished. right jerry like the race truck :)

[Dezertpilot]

Uh I don't know how old this topic is or if anybody is gonna get mad at me for bringing this back up but I have a 1986 built 4runner with a 1987 7m-ge and that is non-turbo. If anybody has any question's let me know. And again sorry if I brought this back up I was searching and found some interesting topics.

[matt_helton]

october 29th, 2002..............

[WannaB-class5]

It doesn't matter how old the topic, everyone was wrong. It's not about ford v. toyota, it is about truck v. baja bug! Way cheaper and way more fun to break. OKAY just kidding and please don't respond to this. In my house we own both a CRAZY built 1450 truck and an almost as build 1300 bug!