Batteries of choice? [Archive]

Marshall

May 26th, 2002, 22:39

I have a yellow top and my high output altanator(sp?) went bad and dumped so much juice in it that it swelled up till it was round and hissed out the little vent holes in the top. I fixed the problem and Im still using the batt a year later. It kinda returned to its normal size. But I dont think I would buy an other brand. I think the Yellow is a deep cycle which has a longer reserve than the red , but I could be wrong on that one. MW

cleartoy

May 26th, 2002, 22:52

Optimas are the only batts ive seen hold up to off road abuse. They dont leak, they are gel filled, so no plates to break.

85 Toyota xtracab 4x4(for sale)
94 Toyota stdcab 2x4
99 Yamaha YZ250

Got Sand??

blind655

May 26th, 2002, 23:14

I think with the deep cycle you can drain it to zero power and re charge it with out damaging the battery.. I guess with a regular battery its not good to do that

A suburban might not be as good as a truck, but it comes damn close with 8 people in it

scott

May 27th, 2002, 00:00

2 Red Tops should be good enough. Are you planning on running lots of lights ???

havahockey

May 27th, 2002, 00:07

I have 4 100W lights, 2 55W Dust lights.

rdc

May 27th, 2002, 01:27

If you're not sure which to use, get an orange top.

Kritter

May 27th, 2002, 03:32

I've got a Die Hard and it rocks. Never had a problem, stereo with mad bumps runs for hours on end and I have killed it to zero several times. Optimas are overpriced and overrated. I think I payed 100 for mine installed with 6 year warranty and it has not let me down yet....4 years later.

Kris

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.dmsrace.com>www.dmsrace.com</A>

ntsqd

May 27th, 2002, 09:07

I just went thru the Optima site last night looking at all of the options they offer. Hope the below is clear enough. From the numbers I don't see any difference btwn the Orange top and the Red top unless you're of the 'Spinal Tap' bent and Orange must be better because it's Orange. I think a rep's explaination is order there.
The trend seems to be that the deep cycle batteries have more lead in them as they are, as a class, heavier than the starting batteries.
I'm considering 4 of the Red top 6V models wired series-parallel. They would be lighter than 2 Red or Orange tops excepting the 75/35 models, but they have better performance numbers than those.

Top Mdl Grp Lth Wh Ht Wt Ah Res CCA MCA P/N
Link

STARTING:
Orange R34 34 10 6.8 7.8 37.9 50 104 750 980 8003-151 http://www.optimabatteries.com/products/pdf/R34.pdf

Red 34 34 10 6.8 7.8 37.9 50 104 750 980 8002-002 http://www.optimabatteries.com/products/pdf/34.pdf

Red-dual terminal
34/78 34/78 10 6.8 7.8 38.8 55 104 750 980 8004-003 http://www.optimabatteries.com/products/pdf/3478.pdf

Red-dual terminal
75/35 75/35 9.4 6.8 7.6 33.1 44 90 650 870 8022-091 http://www.optimabatteries.com/products/pdf/7535.pdf

6V Red
6V n/a 10 3.5 7.8 18.4 50 104 750 980 8010-044 http://www.optimabatteries.com/products/pdf/6V.pdf

DEEP CYCLE:
Yellow D34 34 10 6.8 7.8 42.9 55 120 550 870 8012-021 http://www.optimabatteries.com/products/pdf/D34.pdf

Ylw D34/78 34/78 10 6.8 7.8 43.8 55 120 550 870 8014-045 http://www.optimabatteries.com/products/pdf/D3478.pdf

6V Ylw D6V n/a 10 3.5 7.8 23.3 50 120 550 870 8018-004 http://www.optimabatteries.com/products/pdf/D6V.pdf

MARINE:
Blue/ltgry case (deep cycle)
D34M 34 10 6.8 7.8 43.5 55 120 550 870 8016-103 http://www.optimabatteries.com/products/pdf/D34MB.pdf

Blue/dkgry case (starting)
D34M 34 10 6.8 7.8 38.4 50 104 750 980 8006-006 http://www.optimabatteries.com/products/pdf/D34M.pdf

TS

"Teach you all I know and you're still stupid"
-- Howdy Lee

partybarge_pilot

May 27th, 2002, 17:39

Overpriced till they spew battery acid all over your truck. You can break the plates loose in an optima to. The rep told Me to mount them on thier side to prolong the life. This keeps the plates from pulling out of the buss bars on top. Or you could just get better suspension......

dezerts10

May 27th, 2002, 18:59

i have got a question. I am planning on putting my battery in the bed of my truck soon and i want the battery to last for a while i was planning on an optima but i dont really know much about the different batteries. With my stock battery i can be out at lunch listening to my radio and my battery will go dead enough to the point where i can t start my truck and my lunch is only 30 mins. any suggestion?

Kritter

May 27th, 2002, 20:14

Sounds like your battery is bad or is not the right one for that truck. I can run my stereo for about 4-6 hours and not have problems....and my CD player will begin to skip when it is getting too low and thats when I know to fire it up.

Kris

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.dmsrace.com>www.dmsrace.com</A>

Josh_Bethmann

May 27th, 2002, 22:18

The problem with the die hard's is they leak. Over time, you will cause damage to your cables if you are not careful. Mine leaked a little, or what I thought was a little. Suddenly the truck would not start. The battery had leaked so bad that the cables deteriorated. I had to replace the battery as well as the cables. It cost me $500. I replaced it with a Optima red top for $125 - Autozone. Get the Optima, its worth it if the truck bounces at all.
-Josh

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.JTB-Design.com>http://www.JTB-Design.com</A>

scott

May 27th, 2002, 22:19

I'll tell you what !!!! My buddies Ranger has a Honda......YES a Honda battery in it, and it takes a pounding, and its going on 7 years old. He swears by them.....

BIG_FAT_LOSER

May 27th, 2002, 22:24

I've seen Optimas' at costco for $99

Duct tape is like the Force.It has a light side and a dark side,and it holds the universe together.

Kritter

May 27th, 2002, 22:30

4 years and lots of dirt miles and mine is holding up like a champ..hence the reason I recommend them so highly. I maintain my truck on a weekly basis so I dont have to worry about things getting out of control to the point of deterioration. If you paid 125 fir the optima, where did the other 375 go? Gold cables?

Kris

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.dmsrace.com>www.dmsrace.com</A>

Dave_G

May 27th, 2002, 23:10

Re: " It cost me $500"

FIVE HUNDRED BUCKS! for a battery and cables????
WOW, who put that in for you? Advanced Machining Dynamics?? ;-)

Dave

"I know it all, but I can't remember most of it..."

ntsqd

May 28th, 2002, 07:53

Canadian friend of mine had his alt die in WA state on his way to the Rubicon. Being very tight budgeted he didn't have it on him to replace the alt so he got truckers to charge him in rest stops. Drove down, ran the Rube, and back like that. On the Rube his batt broke loose and got into the fan which ate a big hole in the side. They duct taped the hole closed and refastened it somehow.
That was an Optima battery and it went another year b4 dieing. He thinks it would have lasted longer if he'd periodically replaced the duct tape as it came loose. He said it looked like the gel in the two exposed cells dried out.

TS

"Teach you all I know and you're still stupid"
-- Howdy Lee

Waldo

May 28th, 2002, 09:07

I don't think you need to purchase an Optima but hey it's your money. Just because a battery is made differently (coiled inside rather than plates - gel instead of liquid) and marketed to the masses doesn't by any means mean its better. I agree with Kris, if you maintain your truck on a weekly basis, your chances of "mishaps" are far less. This includes batteries. I have purchases stock batteries from dealer ships for years. I have a friend that helps me out and they all have waranties just like any other battery.

Blind 655, I believe you can cycle a battery through a charge and then "drain" it too a safe level and recharge. I use a "Battery Tender" on all my 12v toy batteries, including my boat. You can use a batter tender on any lead acid battery. But don't quote me on that, it might be different for a deep cycle. It was the best $50 I have spent in a long time. Check out batterytender.com if you are worried about your battery losing juice.

Make sure your batteries are mounted in a very secure place. I had a battery "fall out" and hit my fan as well. This was down in Felipe in BFE with my girlfriend. Took two hours, duck tape (like the above mentioned), and tie-downs to fix it. Needles to say, after that incident I moved the battery in the bed. Good luck

BRAAAAAAAAP!

orvacian

May 28th, 2002, 11:35

Here is the basic difference between the yellow to and red top. Yellow top (deep cycle) batteries can be discharged down to about 20% of total capacity and still be recharged without damage for several hundred cycles. Red top batteries are designed for starting purposes, if you discharge a red top below about 90% capicity, you are hurting the batterys life span. If you let a red top die completely, you MAY kill it after several times. The yellow top battery has a lower CCA rating also, they were designed for lower current discharge and charge rates. In reality though, the red top battery seems to last just as long as the yellow top, and it costs like $75 less. I had a yellow before and it bubbled up on top like someone else had mentioned, and lost it's charge capacity completely after 1.5 years. I took it to interstate(who owns optima now) and they would not warranty it for me at all. They said it was overcharged so I was out of luck. I got a red top about a year ago at it seems to perform just as good.
So anyway,I think the BEST setup would be to have a red top for your starting battery, and a yellow top for the secondary battery to run the audio system. You would HAVE TO run a dual battery isolator for that. Never connect two unlike batteries in parallel. Or just go with a single red top. Hope that helps

Josh_Westwood

May 28th, 2002, 13:14

I have tried just about every battery out there (exide, interstate, duralast, GM, Ford) and the optima is the only one I've had not fail on me. The plates would break up on the others and something about the optima whether its the coil design or whatever has lasted over four and counting

ntsqd

May 28th, 2002, 22:21

From Optima's "About us" page:

> The OPTIMA® battery was first developed by engineers at Denver's Gates Rubber Company in the early 1970's. Research and development continued during the 70's and 80's. In 1992, the OPTIMA research and manufacturing operation was acquired by the Gylling Group of Scandinavia. The Gylling Group built a new manufacturing plant and corporate headquarters near Denver International Airport.

On November 1, 2000, Johnson Controls, Inc. purchased OPTIMA Batteries, Inc. from the Gylling Group of Scandinavia.

With regard to trickle charging Optima's (from their FAQ page):

> Can you trickle charge an OPTIMA? Solar card charger?
Yes, you can use any charger on an OPTIMA as long as the voltage is regulated properly. If your charger will remain on indefinitely the voltage should be at 13.8 volts maximum with a one amp maximum current.

TS

"Teach you all I know and you're still stupid"
-- Howdy Lee

ntsqd

May 28th, 2002, 22:25

FWIW, if you hear an Optima gurgling it's outgassing and you are damaging it. We were told when took delivery of the 26 yellow tops for the HEV that we should never 'vent' them during charging. To do so was damaging to them.

Note that if you use a diode type isolator that you are giving up the diode cracking voltage and the batteries will never get fully charged unless you have the voltage regulator of your alternator set to compensate.

TS

"Teach you all I know and you're still stupid"
-- Howdy Lee

Josh_Bethmann

May 28th, 2002, 22:25

The factory cables are roughly $150 for positive and negative harnesses. So there is $ 300 of it, as well as upgraded battery box and terminals to fit the optima, and $500 is what you have. I didn't have much of an option considering the truck died in the parking lot of Autozone. Oh well.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.JTB-Design.com>http://www.JTB-Design.com</A>

rdc

May 29th, 2002, 00:37

Josh, do you need any videos made?? $150 for a cable? Dude you could have made them from a roll of 10GA wire... Next time you break down give my a call.. Since you have no problem shellin out the coin... Dave doesn't need it as bad as I do.. LOL

As for the battery to use. Go with the Optima (red top is fine) or I think Kragens has the orbital or spiral batteries which are the same thing. If you believe that a regular battery is as good for off road abuse as an optima then I have some beach front property in Arizona I will sell you dirt cheap! I have a optima and I haven't even seen it since I put the coil-overs on.. Fish how long has that been? I don't see how saving even $50 would be worth having to maintain a battery weekly. Just my .02

Tony
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.y-not-productions.com>www.y-not-productions.com</A>

BradM

May 29th, 2002, 08:41

10ga wire? I think you better stick to the low voltage stuff and the video cameras. It seems that excessive current may be an issue for you.

rdc

May 29th, 2002, 08:48

I said a roll.. I was thinking a few wires put together.. I was just saying I would have rigged it till I could get some welding cable vs getting taken for a fool. But I guess that is just my point of few since I am poor and even if it took me all day to get home it would be cheaper than spending $300 for cables. And I play with high voltage and current all the time..

Tony
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.y-not-productions.com>www.y-not-productions.com</A>

AllwaysRcn

May 29th, 2002, 09:02

I run a red top in my 9 car which takes more punishment then most people think. I run a red top in my drag car which gets re-charged between every round. Got one for the motorhome, chase/daily truck, and everything else i own and haven't had a problem yet (knock on wood). We also run red top optimas in all four of our class one cars.

Waldo

May 29th, 2002, 09:09

Here's a good one for you guys...I have a bet going with my neighbor about batteries. I was connecting a new cd player in my boat yesterday and was searching for a place to connect the ground from the radio. He tells me "just connect it to the neg terminal on your battery, it does the same thing." I told him that I don't think so and found another pain-in-the-but place. Does anyone know in here if hooking up a ground on a neg terminal is damaging to the radio or battery? Thanks

BRAAAAAAAAP!

tkr

May 29th, 2002, 09:36

In all vehicles, as well as boats I'm sure, the negative terminal of the battery is connected...or should be connected...to the frame and engine block. So connecting your cd player to the actual terminal instead of any other grounding point will cause no problems, and more than likely be more trouble free given the corrosion problems with boats.

Matt Nelson
Team Kwik Racing

Josh_Bethmann

May 29th, 2002, 09:49

A roll of 10 Ga? Come on that it isn't nearly large enough for the initial spike required for the starter. You need at least a 4Ga or 2Ga. The reason for spending so much, was that it was an entire harness, including all the grounding points as well as alt hook up as well as starter hook up. The question is not how much i spent. It how much time I had to put into it. The money I spent is nothing compared to what I would have lost had I taken all day to build new cables. Yeah I could have done it but its also the piece of mind that goes along with it.
-Josh

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.JTB-Design.com>http://www.JTB-Design.com</A>

rdc

May 29th, 2002, 10:36

Well I didn't know you were replacing the whole harness. Man how long was it between times you opened your hood to see what was going on under there? I was thinking you just replaced the battery cables.

10GA copper wire in free air can handle 55 Amps. That is continuous so I would guess you could run about 100 Amps momentary.. Take about 5 wires together and you can handle around 500 Amps.. Not ideal but will work. I just said 10GA since most parts stores have it. By all means if you can get your hands on a thicker gage then thats what you would use. And keep in mind I was just looking at this as a temp, get you home fix. Just like the bars leak I poured in last Sunday.. Not the best way to fix my blown head gasket but will get me by. SEE YA AT THE 500 !!

Tony
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.y-not-productions.com>www.y-not-productions.com</A>

Kritter

May 29th, 2002, 11:30

YOu have the 4 liter Tony? If so good luck finding new heads cuz I am sure you cracked one if you blew a head gasket. THe water jacket on them sucks...I know I blew a crack right in it becaseu it was way too thin. It was only 100 more bucks to buy a comnplete turnkey long block with 1300 miles out of a rollover. I might have that gasket kit for the top end if you still have not ripped her down. I will check tonight.

Kris
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.dmsrace.com>www.dmsrace.com</A>

partybarge_pilot

May 29th, 2002, 11:35

Hooking up your radio ground directly to the battery will give you noise in the system. Useing the chassis as a ground acts as a big capaciter to dampen most noise from the engine, blinkers, fan motors, ect. Also if running external amps run an extra ground wire between all chassis to prevent ground loops. Unless you like the simulated turbo whine.........

rdc

May 29th, 2002, 12:13

Kris,

Yeah I have a 4.0L.. I have a another motor out at my parents but it will need to be rebuilt. So if you have those gaskets and don't need them let me know. Hope I am not coming back from Baja on 3 cylinders. LOL..

Tony
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.y-not-productions.com>www.y-not-productions.com</A>

Kritter

May 29th, 2002, 12:20

I'll check because those bastards are expensive.

Kris
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.dmsrace.com>www.dmsrace.com</A>

rdc

May 29th, 2002, 12:24

Cool, Thanks

Tony
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.y-not-productions.com>www.y-not-productions.com</A>

Josh_Bethmann

May 29th, 2002, 19:44

Yeah, the cables were badly worn. The problem, that the battery did not each away the insulation at all, it just corroded the copper under, making solid contact next to impossible. I know Home Depot carries the Big guage wire if you are looking for a permanent solution.
-Josh

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.JTB-Design.com>http://www.JTB-Design.com</A>

ntsqd

May 29th, 2002, 22:31

"Also if running external amps run an extra ground wire between all chassis to prevent ground loops. Unless you like the simulated
turbo whine........."

Isn't that going to create a ground loop, having more than one ground btwn, say, the body and the frame ?

I ground the body to the frame, the engine to the battery, and the battery to the frame. When I can get it I use the flat braided ground strap and normal heavy gauge cable when the flat strap isn't available. The flat strap is better at passing high frequency noise than heavy cable. On the ground side of the battery you have a pretty good capacitor btwn the neg terminal and the alternator. It has lots of plate area. I'd think most noise in amps and radios would come from the positive side where you have no such filter.

FWIW, I coiled my Aux power wire around the ring magnet from the power cord of a computer printer (from inside the printer) as many times as the hole in the center would pass a 10 ga. Never had an issue with noise in the stereo or the radio.

TS

"Teach you all I know and you're still stupid"
-- Howdy Lee

partybarge_pilot

May 30th, 2002, 11:55

Ground loops are created when you have defferent ground potentials between units. When this happens they try to partially ground through the RCA connections creating that great hum... Grounding all chassis together or at the same piont will get rid of this. Some units have balanced inputs which helps. Older alpine, kenwood, blaupunkt units had 9 pin DIN connectors which have a ground built in seperate from the audio channels. Much better set-up as they are also briaded internally for better RF rejection.

John_Bitting

June 5th, 2002, 09:20

I talked to the Optima rep for awhile. His suggestion is run one yellow top and you should be fine. He said Enduro racing ran a 90amp alternator and one duralast battery for a long time. He said no reason for a street truck to run 2 even with lights and stereo. I have a lot of info to post just too tired right now. Some of them are Red and Blue are the same exact batteries, blue just has posts to use in marine application. They are both starting batteries. He also said the battery could be taken out for over a year and used again where as no regular battery would still work.

Chris_Wilson

June 5th, 2002, 09:37

Stereos hardly draw any current compared to fans, lights, or a winch. A 1000w stereo
system even when cranked is only using a few watts average with huge current spikes
which are typically supplied by the capacitors in the amps or external hi-frequency caps
on really high end installations. Fans can draw 25-30 amps each especially when full
of dust and mud. One of the great things about HID's is once lit, they don't place much
load on the alternator/battery.