racing seats

[sigmatero]

I'm in the researching stage for a pair of Class 7 legal seats (able to accomodate a 5-point harness). Could some of you give me your overall impressions of each of these companies' seats (the list was just found with some web searching). Assume either their top of the line seat or their best "almost" top of the line seat that is a good value for the money...

Beard
PRP Racing
Racecraft
Redart
Mastercraft
Sparco
Corbeau
Hunsaker
Competition Pro

Things like "comfortable", "great value", "fits big dude", "durable", "good reputation as a company", etc would be helpful. I'm not really wanting to bash any companies but I also don't want someone with contingency support from one of these companies overstating their sponsor. So honest answers would be appreciated and hopefully this won't turn into a dogfight.

Oh, I'm a really big guy (6'7", 265#) so noting any of these seats (companies or specific seat models) that fit an especially tall guy would be helpful. I'm not particularily fat in my butt but I'm not a beanpole either. If I was a chick I would be called "big boned" I guess. To be more technical, if I sit down on a ruler I'm 20" wide across my butt and I have a 40" waist (38" on a skinny day). Do you think that ruler makes my butt look big?

And I would just love to try each of these seats but I can't think of a single shop around here that even carries them.

Thanks folks.

Joa

[Dan McMillin]

Mastercrafts are good seats. I would go with those...

[Grant Lenk]

mastercraft seats are the hot ticket. We run the 3G in our class one car and they are really nice. Comes in any + or - size you need. All around great seats!

[Kartman]

I went shopping for seats a few weeks ago and got Mastercraft +2 Proseats. Very nice product and very helpful staff.

[curtnrod19]

i like the beard seats myself, hell of a good company and great seats. also come in + / - sizes. check them out. www.beardseats.com

[TimG_AZ]

Sparco or Recaro hands down. They are the safest and most comfortable. the pickle barrel cut at a 45 degree angle style seats are so dangerous, yes I know everyone uses them.
I am 6'4" 230 and I fit in sparco evo large. my son is 6'4" 300 and he fits in sparco evo XL. Sparco and Recaro are the ONLY seats that are FIA approved, means crash testing etc. these seats could save your life and/or your back. the others will not.
I changed the seats in my TT to recaro, sand car to recaro, other sand car to recaro, 4 seat prerunner car to sparco. one you use them you will never go back. figure about $700 per seat. I can get them for you if you like and maybe a better price. email me at X10@cox.net if interested. I have bought many of them so I get a good price and would be happy to pass on to you. good luck.
good luck

[Uncle_Bob]

I have a pair of used Mastercraft ProSeats for sale. They're in excellent condition. No rips, scratches or tears. Black with Purple inserts.

http://www.mastercraftseats.com/prod-proseat-cardinal.shtml

PM me if your interested.

[sigmatero]

Thanks for all the good info folks. I'm curious, what makes the the "pickle barrel" seats dangerous and what are the safety advantages of the Sparco or Recaro seats? I am helping to design crashworthy aircraft seats so am interested in the design aspects of offroad racing suspension seats before I buy something.

Thanks.

[AZ45]

Most of the companies listed make good seats. Mastercraft obviously building seats with information based on a zillion off road race miles, so as far as a suspension seat goes, I’d buy Mastercrafts. But I wouldn’t buy suspension seats.

Most professional motorsport sanctioning bodies rely on certifications from independent labs to judge the safety of racing allowed safety equipment. Sparco and Recaro are the only 2 listed seats that I know for sure have the stringent FIA approval that is good for the rest the world’s motorsports.

I won’t go off on a rant to long to read, but I will take this opportunity to show a couple of pictures of a custom molded seat insert kit that we’ve been working on for the past couple of years. It is the same concept used for Indy car and F1 seats; it starts as a liquid then rises like Mom’s bread to custom form to your body. The material is soft to absorb the impacts of an off road car, but firm enough to keep you sitting in a comfortable position for hours at a time. It’s safer because it will spread the G loads more evenly over a larger area of your body; instead of your arse taking all of the G’s which leads to fatigue. Also, if the seat holds you in the car, you can quit bracing your self with your left foot on the dead pedal and concentrate on driving. Seat inserts will also make drivers of different sizes able to comfortably sit in the same seat.

We have some seats being tested currently and I would expect some to be used at this years 1000 and possibly next weekends BITD race. The material is designed to be used in FIA approved shell style seats.

If you’re 6’7”- 265, you need a strong seat that fits you well, like the Sparco Evo XL.

The following images are of an insert we’re doing for a racer with lots of years of desert experience, and more Baja wins than you can count on 2 hands.

The kits will be available as do it yourself, or we can build them. We’ll let everyone know when they’re available.

Jeff
www.upr.com

[baja619]

photoshop>image>adj.>shadow/highlight...

[PMAZ7]

Other than the Recaro and Sparco seats, I'm curious as to why everyone likes the other brands: Beard/Mastercraft etc... Could you guys please fill me in? I've only ever used the Recaro or Sparco seats myself. Thanks.

[ACME]

Mastercraft hands down. We've used them all in 9, 16, 10 and 11 and they are the most comfortable, longest lasting and give us the best fit/support of any of the seats we've tried. Our personal choice is the Pro 2 and add all the storage bags that you can (back/sides), you can never have enough places to stash tools, maps, food, jackets etc..., The removable cushion is tall for a lot of buggy's but a nice option and the little pocket the rocks go into at the back of the seat makes a huge difference in an open wheel car. PRP was a close second in our opinion, they wear well and are comfortable with a lot of options.

[sigmatero]

I'll throw out one piece of info we've learned from crash testing... it isn't necessarily the initial impact that breaks your back, it's the rebound. Seats that rely solely on foam for energy absorption don't tend to do very well (even seats with Oregon Aero, Confor, etc. "space foam") since the foam doesn't really absorb that much energy before it translates it back to the occupant (during rebound) as a lumbar load. Most crashworth aircraft seats (built to current seat standards, most GA planes are old enough that they don't have to comply) use some sort of energy attenuator (not foam) to keep the occupant loads to a survivable level.

But perhaps with offroad racing it's a little different. Granted you guys "fly" but you probably don't have a 26g vertical load to deal with. Seat safety is perhaps more a function of occupant restraint and containment as it is heavy load dissipation.

Interesting discussion.

[scottm]

It depends on your budget of course, but my first concern is my back, so I got sparcos. I started a thread on this question back in Feb, here:

http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17571&highlight=sparcos

[Jack]

I'll throw out one piece of info we've learned from crash testing... it isn't necessarily the initial impact that breaks your back, it's the rebound. Seats that rely solely on foam for energy absorption don't tend to do very well (even seats with Oregon Aero, Confor, etc. "space foam") since the foam doesn't really absorb that much energy before it translates it back to the occupant (during rebound) as a lumbar load. Most crashworth aircraft seats (built to current seat standards, most GA planes are old enough that they don't have to comply) use some sort of energy attenuator (not foam) to keep the occupant loads to a survivable level.

But perhaps with offroad racing it's a little different. Granted you guys "fly" but you probably don't have a 26g vertical load to deal with. Seat safety is perhaps more a function of occupant restraint and containment as it is heavy load dissipation.

Interesting discussion.


I would think it is a little easyer to desing and aircraft seat to colapse under a high G load of a crash. Then you are done flying it is time to rebuild or replace, but of road seats need to absorb the g load and still be ready for the next and the next without falling apart, the problem is to realy do this right you need alot of space to absorb (time to disapate speed) and you do not have this either.
Suspension style seats fit the bill for this application as long as you do not excead it's max load. I have seen many frames broken from normal off-road use. There needs to be some combination of a shell for the outside to stay intact then form for final decelaration with a syspension seat webing within to give acomfort ride. This would be ideal, but will be big.

[JOSH]

In my opinion Beard Seats are without a doubt the best off-road race seat on the market, We have run Beards in our Class one cars and we will be using them in our Trophy Truck. Two high speed crashes and allot of miles and we have never had any sort of seat related failure. Beard puts in allot of thought and R&D into all of the seats they design and build, the quality is top notch and they support what we do.

[gwm]

PMA27, you asked about suspension seats and I can tell you this: I bought a lot of Mastercraft seats from Peri when she was selling out of her garage in Bonita. I liked them a lot and at the time would not buy anything else. I have a pair of Beards in a class 5 car currently that were there when I got the car and I'm happy with them. I don't know that there's a significant difference between the two. That said, were I to replace them or get seats for a new car, after the rash of back injuries a few years ago (Bruckmann and at least one other) I'd probably go with Sparco.

[J.JOHNSON]

Mastercraft, For their great product and their customer service. I would never buy from beard because of their inability to help their customers and dont ever try and have a seat rebuilt by them.
Like I stated Mastercraft all the waY Sorry but I donot have enough experience with the sparcos or momo to give an opinion.

[Samco Fab]

One more vote here for the Mastercraft product. Very good quality and customer service.

If you want an FIA approved seat, you might also look at RACE TECH . They are built in New Zealand, and are a very nice seat that are comprable to the Sparcos in quality and price. Call Brian at 775-351-2250 I think you can get a really nice seat for around $750, but I never asked about the larger sizes.

[retroblazer]

Is there any particular reason why a suspension seat would not qualify for a FIA rating? Keep in mind that helmets with air inlets were not FIA certified either, but we used them for twenty years before helmet manufacturers started to incorporate inlets in their factory designs.

[PMAZ7]

Is there any particular reason why a suspension seat would not qualify for a FIA rating? Keep in mind that helmets with air inlets were not FIA certified either, but we used them for twenty years before helmet manufacturers started to incorporate inlets in their factory designs.

I don't really have any idea, but if I were to speculate... I would say it is because of the support those seats lack. Lateral g loads would demolish a driver (as in a side impact from another car/wall at race speeds). Just what I would think having driven almost my entire life in road racing. I could very much be off in this department, but short of an actual FIA rep. that certifies equipment, I don't know if we'll know.

[JESSE_at_TLT]

We've run Beard suspension seats in other vehicles, but purchased a set of Sparco Evos from Camburg for our current project. Their lightweight, low-profile shell was a major factor in our decision because we were stuffing them into a standard-cab Toyota.

[J_Lothringer]

MASTERCRAFT 3Gs get my vote........................

[ITS A JAKE]

mastercraft 3gs in my car!!! super rad!!!!

[516racer]

has anyone used sparcos or recardos in a 16 car? And if so can i get some feedback on them

[John F2000]

Is there any particular reason why a suspension seat would not qualify for a FIA rating? Keep in mind that helmets with air inlets were not FIA certified either, but we used them for twenty years before helmet manufacturers started to incorporate inlets in their factory designs.

From what I understand it has more to do with the money required to test the seat than anything. Cost for crash testing is very high. IE smaller companies cant afford it.

[scary fast hummer]

From what I understand it has more to do with the money required to test the seat than anything. Cost for crash testing is very high. IE smaller companies cant afford it.

Exact-a-mundo! Its all about cost. FIA is frenchy for "PITA" In order to get your roll cage homologated you have to build one and have it crushed by a certified test facility. You can get it done on a mathamatical model but thats even more expensive.

FWIW, I run 4 Racecraft seats (from Yuma) in my H1 desert racer and am very happy with them. If I ever get the monetary budget I'll have to switch to a FIA approved seat :-(

Cheers! Cole

[AZ45]

Without testing products, any goof-ball can build a product and say it's safe.
Racing safety related products have the FIA and SFI to test and approve products based on science and real world situations with no financial interest.
I’m sure if the off road sanctioning bodies required FIA sled testing on the seats, the suspension seat manufacturers would figure out a way to get their seats approved.

[jeff]

Customer Service Woes...
I called up Mastercraft a few months ago and inquired about getting a taller version of an existing seat they make... taller than their extra tall option allows... I got nowhere fast. And I got a little attitude, like if they didn't already have what I wanted they had no interest in building it. That's fine. I was not impressed with Mastercrafts customer service on that day in regards to that specific situation. Everyone has their bad day and apparently I nailed theirs. I have never felt very comfortable in the Mastercraft 3G and that was the tallest seat they offered at the time. Other models in their line felt pretty good (in the shoulders especially) but the height of the seat back wasn't tall enough for me. Asking for a taller version is where I derailed with Mastercraft. Height wise the 3G was almost adequate, but I just didn't feel comfortable in it. That's my latest experience (three months ago).

It's funny that someone mentioned Beard and bad customer service... I had the exact OPPOSITE experience. I don't want to bang a drum for Beard but I was and still am super stoked on their product and service. I ended up with a set of Beard (RedArt) seats for my new prerunner. The driver seat is + wider, the passenger side is ++ wider, the 3rd rear seat is normal width. I wear 34 waist pants/shorts and the + width will be nice in a prerunner. The seat is still a little snug on the thighs but I fit down in the seat nicely. In a race vehicle I'd go standard width to ensure my butt is firmly planted. For a big guy, and a few of my friends are big guys, the width of the passenger seat was a concern. I have no idea how comfortable the other seats are going to be for passengers and I don't really care that much, my seat fits me well and after it packs out a little I'll be sittin' pretty. Others have sat in my seat and didn't like it. So my advice is to sit in a bunch of different seats until you find one that you like. Also, if your co-dog has a different body size/type you might want to get him/her to find one that fits them, comfortable to you might be painful or unsafe for another.

Cobra also makes a pretty nice seat. I sat in one briefly at SEMA last year and it was pretty nice. A good friend has Sparco's in his project TT and I don't fit in that seat for nuthin' --- it's built for smaller guys and I feel like Chris Farley sitting in a standard width Sparco - big guy in a little seat. For a prerunner and long haul chase truck I decided to purchase a suspension seat because it's more comfortable. The harder seats are probably better in a crash than a suspension seat... but I don't plan on running fast "race" speeds. When it's being used I plan on spending lots of time behind the wheel and I'll give up a little safety for more comfort. In a race vehicle I'd run what the experts recommend, they hopefully know more than me.

Aloha

[Stephen]

I'm 6'4" - 190Lbs and the 3G was tall enough but the shoulder "wings" rub my upper arms raw over a couple hundred miles.
Good luck picking one, you almost need a few hundred miles in each to decide what's comfortable.

[Big Oly TT]

I'm in the researching stage for a pair of Class 7 legal seats (able to accomodate a 5-point harness). Could some of you give me your overall impressions of each of these companies' seats (the list was just found with some web searching). Assume either their top of the line seat or their best "almost" top of the line seat that is a good value for the money...

Beard
PRP Racing
Racecraft
Redart
Mastercraft
Sparco
Corbeau
Hunsaker
Competition Pro

Things like "comfortable", "great value", "fits big dude", "durable", "good reputation as a company", etc would be helpful. I'm not really wanting to bash any companies but I also don't want someone with contingency support from one of these companies overstating their sponsor. So honest answers would be appreciated and hopefully this won't turn into a dogfight.

Oh, I'm a really big guy (6'7", 265#) so noting any of these seats (companies or specific seat models) that fit an especially tall guy would be helpful. I'm not particularily fat in my butt but I'm not a beanpole either. If I was a chick I would be called "big boned" I guess. To be more technical, if I sit down on a ruler I'm 20" wide across my butt and I have a 40" waist (38" on a skinny day). Do you think that ruler makes my butt look big?

And I would just love to try each of these seats but I can't think of a single shop around here that even carries them.

Thanks folks.

Joa
Forget about brands and price. You need to just sit in as many as possible and call all the companies for your application. I have new Mastercraft 3G. It took 3 times as long as they promissed, and is lacking in the lower lumbar support, and is hindering my movement in the shoulder area. I have heard the the same from others about the shoulder area. Spend the time and gas to get what you want. You want to be as comfy as possible. Good luck.

[Allen Bolt]

I don't want to hammer any seat manufacturers, but I read some time ago about spinal cord injuries attributed to a suspension seat. From memory,the article had a medical slant rather than an off-road racing angle and as I myself suffered spinal injuries, I could have read it on any number of medical sites. Anyone come across the same article?
To provide my back and neck with as much protection as possible, I always lined my seats with some form of memory foam.
This may be of interest: Dynafoam (http://www.afeonline.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=421)

[JESSE_at_TLT]

Thanks for the link Allen. I was thinking about adding some type of Tempurpedic-type material to my Sparco seats, but Sigmatero was saying that their crash research showed that energy-absorbing foams doesn't make much of a difference. I still think it might be a good idea just for comfort. Those Sparco seat pads are THIN. Maybe something like UPR's custom-molded pads would be the best option.

I'll throw out one piece of info we've learned from crash testing... it isn't necessarily the initial impact that breaks your back, it's the rebound. Seats that rely solely on foam for energy absorption don't tend to do very well (even seats with Oregon Aero, Confor, etc. "space foam") since the foam doesn't really absorb that much energy before it translates it back to the occupant (during rebound) as a lumbar load. Most crashworth aircraft seats (built to current seat standards, most GA planes are old enough that they don't have to comply) use some sort of energy attenuator (not foam) to keep the occupant loads to a survivable level.

But perhaps with offroad racing it's a little different. Granted you guys "fly" but you probably don't have a 26g vertical load to deal with. Seat safety is perhaps more a function of occupant restraint and containment as it is heavy load dissipation.

[Allen Bolt]

Thanks for the link Allen. I was thinking about adding some type of Tempurpedic-type material to my Sparco seats, but Sigmatero was saying that their crash research showed that energy-absorbing foams doesn't make much of a difference. I still think it might be a good idea just for comfort. Those Sparco seat pads are THIN. Maybe something like UPR's custom-molded pads would be the best option.

I think it's a good idea. I really value what's left of my spine, but we have to keep matters in perspective. I fully respect sigmatero and his research, but I would put emphasis on his last paragraph:

But perhaps with offroad racing it's a little different. Granted you guys "fly" but you probably don't have a 26g vertical load to deal with. Seat safety is perhaps more a function of occupant restraint and containment as it is heavy load dissipation.

[AZ45]

The safety is really in the seat design, the padding is for comfort.
The best solution for replacing the stock Sparco pad, or an addition to some suspension seats like the 3G is the UPR seat pad. It has a similar feel to memory foam but works much better because it's not temperature sensitive. http://www.upr.com/products/?id=4792.

Our seat insert is still in R&D, but should be available soon in kit form. We'll have some in Trucks and on display at the 1000

Jeff
www.upr.com