Building a safe race car

[ChuckH]

A picture is worth a 1000 words, this video is a full chapter on what can happen in a normal crash, study this and think about building so this doesn't happen to you or your friends.

May your rubber side always stay down

Select original size on the bottom right of the video player if it doesnt play smooth
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-300732877826138308

[SpceSpff]

OUCH. thats why a horse collar is very important. that looked like it hurt

[ChuckH]

Your going to need more than a Collar to stop the deadly side movement that happened to this driver, some Orgs haver made padded helmet stops madatory, this guy would have lived if his car was built that way.

[5racer]

Your going to need more than a Collar to stop the deadly side movement that happened to this driver, some Orgs haver made padded helmet stops madatory, this guy would have lived if his car was built that way.

your saying he died in this wreck??? i see his head took a good shot on the cage more than once and why have a visor if its up .

[ChuckH]

As far as i know yes, its the web so who knows for sure, either way thats not going to be healthy and people should build so that kind of thing doesnt happen.

At the least "wear a lid every time you get in'

[Brandon_Charley]

This is going to make me look bad, but it didn't seem THAT bad to me the first time a watched it, so what exactly are you guys discussing as far as how it could have been safer, I would like to have a better understanding of it. All I see is that his cage didn't take the second and third hits too well, and his cage had no padding. Desert racers don't do any more to keep their heads from bobbing like that do they?

[ChuckH]

Yeah that could very well be the inside of many dez cars, look at Indy cars, the drivers helmet has padding right next to the side, then with a Hans device the head cant move.

There are race seats that have built in helmet stops that with a hans device would have made that crash much more survivable.

You can also fab helmet stops that are padded, the closer to the helmet the better, even 5 inchs away would have lessened the damage, what you dont want is your head flying 3 feet from side to side in a crash and hitting bars, padded or not.

[Go Go Gadget Arms]

the extra weight from a helmet can kill you if there is no where to stop your head, think of being in a normal car and getting whiplash. now add the weight of a helmet. i think this is the reason earnhardt sr. was killed in his car. the best thing is a hans device or similar head restraint for slower speeds. i cant think of what its called

[Brandon_Charley]

I thought Earnhardt died because the inertia of ___ (insert super speedway speed) kept his organs going even after his car which he was strapped to hit the wall. Does anyone know if Adam Petty was wearing any head restraints in his crash?

[Go Go Gadget Arms]

i could be wrong. but i know that some racer wasnt wearing a full hans device and it separated their spinal cord (extreme whiplash)

[OldStroppeTeam]

I thought Earnhardt died because the inertia of ___ (insert super speedway speed) kept his organs going even after his car which he was strapped to hit the wall. Does anyone know if Adam Petty was wearing any head restraints in his crash?

As it has been explained by folks much smarter than I, Earnhard,A Petty and others all died because their head basically seperated from the spinal column due to the belts stopping the body, but nothing stopping the head. The HANS had been around for a few years at that time, but other than a few of Jim Downings Roadracing buddies, no one was really sold on the idea.
I also remember seeing one of the first in-car camera crashes, when Richard Petty went into the wall at Daytona. Everyone was amazed that even with shoulder harnesses as tight as he wore his, his head and shoulders went past the center of the car, right in front of the onboard camera. The announcers kept watching and commenting on that fact for a long tme. That is when the sport really started looking at crash dynamics more seriously.

How many people on here wear their seatbelt EVERY time they drive their car to Circle K for a slurppy ? The technology is there, it is your choice to use it, OR NOT !

Just remember, Ya can't fix stupid !

[Brandon_Charley]

How many people on here wear their seatbelt EVERY time they drive their car to Circle K for a slurppy ? The technology is there, it is your choice to use it, OR NOT !

Just remember, Ya can't fix stupid !


I don't see how anyone can drive without a belt, its just uncomfortable, I don't put mine on when someone needs me to move so they can get out of the driveway, and its almost unbearable:)

Another thing this video should illustrate is how unsafe riding in a caged vehicle without a helmet is, if he hadn't had a helmet on, as if he were driving his prerunner on the street, their would have been too much blood and grey matter on the camera to see anything.

[McClintock]

Guess Earnhardt used to race the whole race w/ belts, then would slip off the shoulders the last few laps heading for the finish. Figured he made it the whole race, and would make the rest.

[JOSH]

Sr. was killed from a Basilar skull fracture, as are most others.

Basilar skull fractures, breaks in bones at the base of the skull, require more force to cause than cranial vault fractures. Thus they are rare, occurring as the only fracture in only 4% of severe head injury patients (Graham and Gennareli, 2000; Orlando Regional Healthcare, 2004). Caused by a blow to the back of the head, or by sudden decelleration of torso but not head (as in traffic accidents), resulting in separation of the suture between the occipital and temporal bones. Basilar fractures have characteristic signs: blood in the sinuses; a clear fluid called cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) leaking from the nose or ears; raccoon eyes (bruising of the orbits of the eyes that result from blood collecting there as it leaks from the fracture site); and battle sign (caused when blood collects behind the ears and causes bruising). Patients with basilar skull fractures are especially likely to get meningitis (Downie, 2001). Bones may be broken around the foramen magnum, the hole in the base of the skull through which the spinal cord enters and becomes the brain stem, creating the risk that blood vessels and nerves exiting the hole may be damaged (BAIUSA).

A HANS device would have saved his life.

[Kritter]

Probably wouldnt have had so much head damage if his vehicle was bigger! Who races geo's anyways?

There are rules on min. distance your head should be from your cage in score and bitd.

[mexracer10]

The d-cell is what alot of off road racers use. Which is just a harnes you slip into like a mountian climbing harnes, around your legs and up your back to the helmet. The hans device is more bulky and seems that with all the jumping around in off road would be more uncomfterable.

[J.JOHNSON]

Did anyone else notice how the cage became closer and closer to the driver?

[DUMP!]

That cage is a joke, as I suspect most are in the club racing series that are through out the country. As J. Johnson pointed out the cage gets closer and closer to the driver with every hit. Look at it closely, it's a joke. There is no diagonal in the roof for starters. That alone would have prevented much of the cage side deformation. There is no "A" piller support as seen in vertually all off road cars. There is no diagonal support in the front windshild that we can see, also found in vertually all off road cars. I have looked at road racing cars for years (and that includes most of the often compaired too, FIA approved, Rally cars) and thought them to be second rate in cage constrution when compaired to even the simplest off road race car.

Dump

[Casey]

The d-cell is what alot of off road racers use. Which is just a harnes you slip into like a mountian climbing harnes, around your legs and up your back to the helmet. The hans device is more bulky and seems that with all the jumping around in off road would be more uncomfterable.

something like this?

http://www.hutchensdevice.com/

[Superfab]

You think that cage was scary.. porshe actually built some 924 race cars that had aluminum cages in them that they raced in europe. A friend of mine bought one for a parts car when we built his IMSA Porshe and I almost freaked when he pulled on the cage and it moved about 4 inches. They did some scary stuff over there in the 80's.

[DUMP!]

You think that cage was scary.. porshe actually built some 924 race cars that had aluminum cages in them that they raced in europe. A friend of mine bought one for a parts car when we built his IMSA Porshe and I almost freaked when he pulled on the cage and it moved about 4 inches. They did some scary stuff over there in the 80's.

I've got news for you, any driver that raced a Porsche from the late 60s to the early 80s was lucky to get out of the car with his life. Don't get me wrong some of these cars are my most favorite. 917, 917K, 917LH, 917/10, 917/30, 935, 936 are some of the most prolific cars in modern history, and they where all built entirely of aluminum. Porsche used a special "self heat treating" alloy much like the 7005 alloy used in the bicycle industry today. Not to be confused with 7075 non weldable alloys. While these cars are proven strong and reliable race winners, they where not so strong and reliable when introduced to the gaurd rail.

Dump

[JESSE_at_TLT]

Wow. So THAT"S WHY the SCORE rulebook actually states that non-ferrous metals cannot be used to make rollcages.

[Brandon_Charley]

I thought their was a Ford Courier, or Chevy Luv, built a long time ago with a titanium cage, was that before the rule?

[mexracer10]

As far as the cage moving in, in this particular race car, there is room for improvement in the design. But there was a thread not too long ago about a roll over video with an in car camera from a big rally car team, where the car rolled multiple times and every hit you could see the cage coming in closer and closer. there was alot of talk about how much the cage should give and distribute the forces little by little to make the crash more survivable. Now this is almost the same thing, cant be too strong and cant be too weak.

[Hemp]

i think i have seen andy mcmillin wearing one of those d-cell type devices. anyone actually race with one and have comments about comfort or comments in general about it?

[ntsqd]

As far as the cage moving in, in this particular race car, there is room for improvement in the design. But there was a thread not too long ago about a roll over video with an in car camera from a big rally car team, where the car rolled multiple times and every hit you could see the cage coming in closer and closer. there was alot of talk about how much the cage should give and distribute the forces little by little to make the crash more survivable. Now this is almost the same thing, cant be too strong and cant be too weak.
The core of the cage, i.e. that immeditately surrounding the driver & co-driver, should be as rigid as possible. It is their "escape pod". This is why the seats & belts need to be attached to this core section of the cage, you want everything to move as one. The structure out beyond that should be built to absorb energy by deforming. Look at how modern cars have "crumple zones" at the front and rear.

[ACME]

All excellent points... I have a comment/question regarding the "NEW" SCORE rules and "building a safer racecar": During a recent SCORE inspection at a very reputable fab shop, the fabricator/owner was told that the "X" bracing he was using (and had used for the last 10+ years) to brace the cage from lateral movement behind the driver was unacceptable in his 2 seaters and that a single diagonal is what is required. How can a single diagonal bar be safer than an "X" especially in a 2 seat vehicle? I'd take a 1" "X" over a 1.5" single diagonal any day. The fabricator still builds his new cars with a 1" "X" and then adds the required 1.5" diagonal per the rules; his point, he will not risk safety... Having raced in 9, 16, 11 and now 10 I've recently added a helmet restraint device and think it's a major safety advantage, looking back I wish I would have had it in 16.

[RCinqMars]

i think i have seen andy mcmillin wearing one of those d-cell type devices. anyone actually race with one and have comments about comfort or comments in general about it?

after reading and watching many crashes, i am seriously thinking about making an investment in one of those.

....the Camburg guys use the d-cell when they race. Scott did mention that it was not the most comfortable thing to walk around in, but it was perfectly fine when sitting in the truck. little more difficult to look around, but who cares because it is your life.

[mexracer10]

I took a nasty shock to my neck when i rolled my old 10 car at plaster city and just the weight of the helmet alone was enough to jerk my head around pretty hard. I even felt the "yank" from my neck all the way to my jaw. After that i have been looking into the d-cell and once i get the chance i am going to get it. Its very scary stuff when your neck is all numb from hyperextending it.

[irishprerunner]

not that it is a huge help but i will not race without a neck collar. sure it is not as good as a d-cel but it is still something. if nothing else it keeps my neck from getting as tired since the helmet rests on the collar. i would like to get a d-cel or something to that effect but have never really looked into them

[ShaneR]

If you can't afford a D-cell do get a neck collar, or some people call them horse collars. There are different sizes from different brands and some of the better brands make them in different sizes. Get one the rests on your shoulders and supports your helmet so the wieght is not on your neck or head. If you get closterphobic with stuff tight on you, you can get one that lets you move your head a little more but it won't do the job as well as one that supports your helmet and only lets you turn your head from side to side and pretty much keeps you from looking down, this is what the D-cell does. Not only will both save your life but your neck won't be as tired after the race, when you run in rough chop or what people in 5/1600 and 1/2 1600 call head nocker bumps it keeps your head stable, your neck with thank you for it! I think a neck collar is a huge improvment over nothing, and I have tired all three ways.

[scary fast hummer]

I used to race sprint cars back in the '80s and we wore straps that went under your armpits to both sides of the helmet as well has huge horse collars. I dont know if you've ever seen a dirt sprinter go rubber side up but it is EXTREMELY violent. The straps kept your neck from seperating from shoulders like a thanksgiving turkey.:eek:

ALWAYS WEAR GLOVES: I can't tell you how many pavement racers I know with severely burned hands from a very small fire. I see some of the TT drivers in the DP videos without them and cringe every time.

Just my .02 pence worth...