Rough Driving?

[bajafox]

I wish I had gone to the race this weekend, just reading this article makes me regret not going

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/20060724-9999-1s24offroad.html

[Brandon_Charley]

That's not good PR for CORR, especially if they are planning to start building permanent tracks.

[Bink Designs]

Rubbing's racing, that's what I saw.

[bajafox]

I had no idea Renezeder was Jims son in law until I read that article

They probably shouldn't have mentioned that

[Ramsey_ElWardani]

I think Bill Center is right on the money. Drop the yellow flag and through down the black.

[sickrick]

The manditory Yellow flag in the middle of the race is BS and should be stopped NOW.

***********
watch your language. If you can't say it on the Radio you can't say it here -klaus
***********

[Bryan_Harrold]

CORR wants excitement which is why they have the yellow, to bunch the racers back up for the last few laps for an exciting race to the finish. I don't know who else noticed but a lot fo the races were runaways up til the yellow flag, which isn't so exciting to the fans. I will agree that it does suck for the guy winning by a longshot to then have everyone else breathing down his neck for the last few laps, but i think its more fun that way. Its not baja, its shortcourse racing and the fun in shortcourse racing is battling with another guy all the way, thats what racing is all about. As for Renezeder and Douglas, i think that was racing and it was exciting to see that battle!

[Anubis]

i may be outta line here but ive been racing in CORR for almost 10 years...... what we have now is Off Road Racing WWE style.........flags are thrown to give drivers a 2nd chance by bunching up the field(full course caution) or completely erasing the "wrong" drivers holeshot and lead(red flag/restart)
whats the point in racing against guys w/ 4 times the budget you have if you know you cant outspend them?.....RULES........ if they drive too aggressive and get black flagged or drive outta control make a mistake and you can pass em...or simply try to bang their way to the front and break something.......YOU STILL BEAT EM........ok... now throw the rules out the window.......then what? you get the holeshot and lead the first lap while they beat and bang and get stacked up behind you.....you got a chance at a podium finish if ya dont make any mistakes right? WRONG!!!!!! red flag comes out..... restart the race......nice huh? or what about guys beatin the fenders off their trucks behind ya while you get a lil lead on em..... they keep bangin away back there they wont catch you...... right? WRONG!!!! full course caution..... bunch up the field.... guess what guys....now YOU are in the middle of that mess you been tryin to stay ahead of....
its turning into a WWE match on wheels.......go ahead and tell me im wrong.... tell me im complaining and whining.....but i been in the CORR pro series 10 years payin outta my own pocket and that gives me the right to speak my mind

[Bryan_Harrold]

the red flag restart is dumb, i will agree on that. The only reason for all of this is the fans. Jim Baldwin wants the fans to enjoy the race and all the action that comes with it. Fans dont enjoy runaways as much as they do side-by-side racing, especially in the last few laps and looking at last weekend's attendance, they need all the action they can get because the stands were lacking fans (which could also be due to poor advertising the week of). The restarts are stupid, but i think the yellow keeps it exciting in the last few laps.

[Anubis]

ok..... if thats all it is... just to give the fans a beter race to watch then keep the rules in place....its less racing than promoting media..... how many nascar races are runaways?...yah i know....apples and oranges.....but the point is valid..... racing IS about runnin away and leavin the competition in the dust....one guy brings his A game and nobody can catch him.... so be it.....if a privateer gets a lucky break and ends up way out front LEAVE HIM THERE.... dont be throwin flags cuz a series sponsors logo is sittin in 6th or 7th..man thats RACING..... sometimes ya get lucky sometimes ya dont......

[sickrick]

the red flag restart is dumb, i will agree on that. The only reason for all of this is the fans. Jim Baldwin wants the fans to enjoy the race and all the action that comes with it. Fans dont enjoy runaways as much as they do side-by-side racing, especially in the last few laps and looking at last weekend's attendance, they need all the action they can get because the stands were lacking fans (which could also be due to poor advertising the week of). The restarts are stupid, but i think the yellow keeps it exciting in the last few laps.

Red flag restart is used when there is a crash that is so bad a yellow flag won't keep the track workers safe or allow clean up of the disabled vehicles. I don't have a problem with that.

What bothers me is the Yellow flag being thrown five laps before the finish to bunch up the cars. If Corr is that worried about runaway wins just run 2 seperate five lap races each day.

[Bryan_Harrold]

i agree, i think there should be races like motos in motocross. and i agree with you too anubis that someone should be able to run away but im just trying to say why i think it is what it is, though i do like the side-by-side action...

[Anubis]

oh yah... when im in the truck i love bumpin and bangin w/ a guy back and forth for position...its what sets us apart from other forms of racing..... but theres limits yknow? i know if i push too hard i risk breakin my truck or his....and thats no fun....im just sayin let us race..... keep the politics and the "media" off the track.... 19 guys mat it when the green flag drops and 15 laps later when the dust clears whos the victor? whoever got the holeshot, got clear of a wreck, made the best pass, etc etc........not whos got the better sponsor or whos name looks better onna trophy.....fans wanna see action? im w/ ya there. run 2 heat races....

[Bink Designs]

Give CORR time I'm sure you will see alot of changes for the 07 season (hopefully..)

[Chop_DSR]

I went out on the record hot Saturday to catch some exciting racing, but I have to admit I was extremely disappointed! What kind of BS is this??? Full course yellow..WTF? Why? When someone explained to me that it's because CORR wants to bunch all the racers up I couldn't beleive it. I just thought...imagine SCORE or even NASCAR slowing everybody down just before the end to "make it more exciting" I mean what the hell? I don't know I just didn't like it at all. I don't see a point in going again if my favorite racer is out front driving a clean race and then gets slowed up and taken out by someone like Renezeder did to Douglas in the final turn. It's just wrong in my opinion.

[BANNED4LIFE]

do you really beleive nascar NEVER manipulates the yellow flags to make the races more interesting???? i dont agree with it but it does make it more exciting for the crowd!!

[gmmvp42]

Imagine going to a football game and at halftime the team that is losing by 20 gets to attempt 6 field goals to narrow the lead. I love off road racing, especially short course, and I was terribly disappointed the first time I saw a yellow to slow the race down.

[FrankHahn]

Since were sharing press releases, here is Jennifer's:

"Renezeder Sweeps Pro-2 Division in Chula Vista; Wins one in Pro-4"

7/24/2006

LAKE FOREST, CA (July 24, 2006) Carl Renezeder sparked excitement and controversy as the Championship Off-Road Racing season closed the door on the first half of the 2006 season this past weekend in Chula Vista, California. Proving that the new Nissan is a now a rock-solid force in contention to win every race, Carl won rounds seven and eight by more than a straight-away both days against a full field of talent and great equipment.

Throughout the weekend, fans commented on Carl's smart driving style and natural ability to stay out trouble and find fast lines. With the Menard Engine Group Nissan Titan powerplant under the hood and a hot shoe in the driver's seat, Team Renezeder has delivered three wins in four races to the great folks at Nissan that had the foresight to believe in the program. The Lucas Oil Nissan Titan is officially on the map as a serious runner.

And now enter the Lucas Oil Pro-4. Power's no problem with Bill Schlieper's Pro-Power big cubic inch beast under the hood. Reliability isn't an issue with Mike Karaba in control of the reigns. And the talent portion is covered with Carl Renezeder holding the wheel. However, the best race of the CORR season was marred by a controversial call by officials to hold results after the checkered flag was thrown and Carl was handed the hardware. Fans loved the close racing and the daring outside/inside move that Carl used in the chicane on the final lap. Cheering outweighed the jeering in the stands and in the end the officials (the same ones that throw a mandatory yellow with six laps to go to bunch up the field for close finishes) felt a 10-point deduction was in order for Carl's side-by-side contact with Scott Douglas. Douglas' retaliation punt was disregarded as a non-issue.

"I felt that Douglas missed his line and opened the door for me to capitalize," commented Carl after four hours of official deliberation. "There was incidental side-by-side contact, I hit the brakes, dove inside, made the pass, was tagged in the rear and then throttled up through the final corner for the win. Hard-fought battles on the track make this sport fun for the drivers and the fans. I'm proud of my guys for the truck they gave me and feel bad for them that there was even an issue. We're glad to put this behind us and look forward to Bark River and Crandon."

The series takes a two-weekend break before revving back up in Bark River, Michigan for rounds nine and ten on August 11th and 12th.

# # #

[Trevor_G]

as far as im concerned both red flags were completely necesarry.
the yellow is CRAP, but it does make it better for the fans as well as better for the TV coverage.

as far as the move at the end of the sunday pro-4 race. as far as i could see carl passed him in the corner and got side be side. looked to me like douglas tried to hold him out of the corner as long as he could but that backfired when carl braked hard and cut inside. and then douglas guns for carls bumper... the only things i thought were a show of bad sportsmanship were douglas gunning it into carls bumper at the switchback corner and douglas bumping carl AFTER the race was over.

[Rocket 450]

Power's no problem with Bill Schlieper's Pro-Power big cubic inch beast under the hood.

WOW I never knew pro-power was building engines for them.For dirt late model racing there a top 5 builder does anyone know who else builds these motors.

[Anubis]

wegner handles my engine program as well as a few others

[Big Hock]

Wow, that article sure puts the heat on the full course yellow as being the problem doesn't it?

[baja619]

I really enjoy the action that CORR brings with mandatory caution.

Beats the hell outta nascar.

As far as promotion. I thought they did a the best job yet. I saw alot of commercials, radio spots, billboards and posters.

Poor attendance was due to unbelievable heat IMO.

Cannot wait for October

[Harpo]

This is the 4th Corr race that I have been to, and the first that I worked as a tech official. This racing doesn't survive without fanbase! period! Being whatever it takes to put fans in the seats. The yellow flag creates a more exciting race for the fans. I realize that the teams and drivers dislike it. Ask Nascar drivers about restrictor plate racing or Bristol. They hate it but the realize that Nascar wouldn't be what it is today without them. I have been around a while and I get goosebumps when the the field is packed up! Does it take away the advantage to the runaway driver? Yes. But that is a two way street, The fastest guy doesn't usually win these races, the luckiest guy does.

[Soylent_Green]

Poor attendance was due to unbelievable heat IMO.

Cannot wait for October I didn't make it this time, but I was wondering on the attendence. It seemed that there was a lot going on that weekend in So Cal. Pretty sparse crowds both days??

[pappawheely]

I love the fierce battles on the track but some of the contact is alittle much. Nobody wants to see thier favorite driver towed back to the pits in pieces. It's up to the drivers to control the contact on the course. I saw some footage that looked like they were banging each other all the way up the hill. Every driver out there has been roughed up and taken out. I agree with the red flag restart, I don't want to see four or five parade laps under yellow. Maybe on the restart they can take the top five and give them a front row start with the field on row 2.

[dhardesty]

[QUOTE=Anubiswhat we have now is Off Road Racing WWE style[/QUOTE]

I could not attend the races this weekend! However I did find this tread interesting. If off road racing (any format) becomes as popular as the WWE, than we will all be in heaven!!!

Someone Posted:
"even NASCAR slowing everybody down just before the end to "make it more exciting" I mean what the hell? I don't know I just didn't like it at all. I don't see a point in going again if my favorite racer is out front driving a clean race and then gets slowed up"

At Pocono this past weekend Nascar throw a "competition Yellow Flag" I've seen them do it many times. If your "favorite" racer was 1/2 a lap behind with 5 laps to go I think you would be in favor of a yellow to give him a chance to win!

Getting folks to spend money to watch an off road event in Southern Cal is no easy task. If you frequent this web site? You need to tell everyone you know to go and experience the CORR races. If CORR is sucessful, all us off road geeks will prosper! Until Mr B bought the series and brought it here to SoCal, I never had the opportunity to experience a CORR race. I think they are awesome!

Good Job V. Bruckman, hope to see you in the #1 spot soon.

[bajafox]

OTL was also going on this passed weekend, may be a reason why the attendance was lower, besides the super hot weather. The bay was really packed.

[henry]

I have been a fan of short course off-road racing for most of my life, and in off-road racing in general as well. Also I have spent some time on a CORR pit crew. I know that back here in the midwest we don't have the full-course yellow and the races are plenty entertaining and fans are there despite the lower population base. If JB wants to get more people in the stands what I think he really needs to do is improve the scheduling of the races. Honestly I think what's keeping people out of the stands at Chula Vista is the fact that although there are many more people in So-Cal than in the midwest. There are many more diversions there as well. At the Crandon and Bark River tracks in the midwest they don't have to compete with several other professional sports for fan attendence. If Jim wants to get fans there, schedule the Cali races during the winter months maybe. Just my 2 cents

[green787]

On Saturday I thought I would die from the heat on the way down to Chula Vista....
But when I got there it was a comfortable 85 degrees with an ocean breeze blowing from the west.... I was sure glad I went, just to beat the heat in Fallbrook. I didn't like the new track as it took away the excitement of turn 2... I think the idea of a reserved section is about done... Nobody was there except the race teams... I agree that the heat probably kept some people from going.... but they blew it... it wasn't hot at all compared to the surrounding county... On Saturday there were no real rough incidents so I can't comment on that...

[gmmvp42]

If the hardcore fans tell there friends there is a sport they HAVE TO check out, then those friends will give their time and go. I live in San Diego and I have my off road friends and my non off road friends. When I heard there were going to be races in Chula Vista I invited all of my non racing friends to check it out, stating "even if you know nothing about trucks/buggies you will be blown away by the noise/speed/spectacle". 5 of my non racing friends came with my family/5 other racing friends to the Nissan Nationals(last weekend of the 2005 season) and were impressed with the number of cars entered, the track, and fan friendly pits. Fast forward to the first round of 2006, I went with my girlfriend to round 1. Got there at 930am, watched practice for an hour, toured the pits for 2.5hrs, then watched 5 races over 5 hours(1pm-6pm). race time 15-20minutes X 5 races = 1hr-1hr 40min of racing, over 3 hours of BS. I had planned to go with my friends the next day but decided not to. The track is good enough( a big air double would be cool), the pit access is probably the coolest part of this sport, you can finally camp overnight, and the races are fun to watch(until the yellow). But to attract new fans you have to keep the hard core ones interested. I want at least one weekend to include every class, desert and short course, with practice all day friday/sat a.m./sun a.m., races from 11 or 12 until 6pm Sat/Sun. There was a rumor the neighbors complained of the dust, thus limiting the time for cars on the track= fewer races. If he really wanted to he could have more races. I have said this before but Riverside (SCORE World Championships) was the holy grail of short course, nothing like it, an all weekend party with great racing and plenty of entries/fans. I invited my non desert fans to come one year and check it out and after one day they were hooked. Of course there were years the attendance was lower then others, but Riverside had something for everyone(Trucks/Buggies/Baja Bugs/3 wheelers-Quads/ even celebrity Jeep races.) Instead of shutting people out, CORR needs to open more doors so more people who truly enjoy the sport will spread the word.

[hammer down racing]

On Saturday I thought I would die from the heat on the way down to Chula Vista....
But when I got there it was a comfortable 85 degrees with an ocean breeze blowing from the west.... I was sure glad I went, just to beat the heat in Fallbrook. I didn't like the new track as it took away the excitement of turn 2... I think the idea of a reserved section is about done... Nobody was there except the race teams... I agree that the heat probably kept some people from going.... but they blew it... it wasn't hot at all compared to the surrounding county... On Saturday there were no real rough incidents so I can't comment on that...

85 degrees?? Did you get there at 2 in the morning? There was a slight breeze every now and again but it was coming from the desert. The paper said it was 110 on Saturday.

Man, I wish I was drinkin or smokin what you were.

[Brian_Goleta]

On Saturday I thought I would die from the heat on the way down to Chula Vista....
But when I got there it was a comfortable 85 degrees with an ocean breeze blowing from the west.... I was sure glad I went, just to beat the heat in Fallbrook. I didn't like the new track as it took away the excitement of turn 2... I think the idea of a reserved section is about done... Nobody was there except the race teams... I agree that the heat probably kept some people from going.... but they blew it... it wasn't hot at all compared to the surrounding county... On Saturday there were no real rough incidents so I can't comment on that...

Our thermometer said 114 in the shade at our camp site on Sat. It was still in the 80's at night but that felt like the ac was on. :)

[Rprice]

I got there saturday around eleven and it was hot probabley 100+ but when the pro 2 started a nice breeze came up and you could see rain over mexico. and sunday wasnt too bad either,

[motojojo7s]

Imagine going to a football game and at halftime the team that is losing by 20 gets to attempt 6 field goals to narrow the lead. I love off road racing, especially short course, and I was terribly disappointed the first time I saw a yellow to slow the race down.

That pretty much sums it up for me. Run shorter races for more action...to me it's not racing when you use the YMCA "everybody plays" rules.

[blazersracing]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I too feel that the mandatory yellow is unfair to the guy who was pulling away, however, I would not want it taken away. The fans love to see a good battle for the finnish and the fans are what keep the sport alive. A lot of the most recent NASCAR races have had green-white-checkered finnishes and the fans always love it.
I saw the last-lap pass by Renezeder and it was a clean racing move. They both came out of the left hander side-by-side and Douglas tried to move left to block but he was too late. He just drove himself into Renezeder who just had to hold his line and then cut to the inside of Douglas.

[dislocated1]

I agree with Brian as to the rough driving call, I was there and it looked agressive but not blatant....Carl had more momentum going through the whoops and then out cornered him around the s-turns.
As far as the mandatory yellow.... did anybody else get a kick out of JG in pro-4 trying to pull the sandbag on everybody, it was funny as hell

[Trevor_G]

As far as the mandatory yellow.... did anybody else get a kick out of JG in pro-4 trying to pull the sandbag on everybody, it was funny as hell

yeah jonnys move on saturday was awesome. sat in the back untill it was bunched up then passed 4 people in one corner. i really think he would have pulled a first if he didnt blow a tire. still finishing third with a blown tire was awesome non the less though.

[green787]

I got there saturday around eleven and it was hot probabley 100+ but when the pro 2 started a nice breeze came up and you could see rain over mexico. and sunday wasnt too bad either,
There, see, he was actually there.... the rest of you were lost in North County...and halucinating (heat stroke not drugs) that you were there..... I arrived at 2:00pm and
enjoyed the nice weather... What is there to see in morning.... no dezert trucks... but I was wondering if all those yuppies in the surrounding homes are growing Pierson's milk-vetch in their backyards.... or is it just the Pro-4's that are responsible for the destruction of the environment...??;)

[Big Hock]

I just watched the video on Dirtnewz, and I don't even think Renezeder should have been docked the points. There was nothing dirty or rough about that pass at all, contact happens in short course racing! If anything, Douglas should have been docked points for being a total dikk afterwards. At least he lost a position when he retaliated on Carl.

[green787]

I just watched the video on Dirtnewz, and I don't even think Renezeder should have been docked the points. There was nothing dirty or rough about that pass at all, contact happens in short course racing! If anything, Douglas should have been docked points for being a total dikk afterwards. At least he lost a position when he retaliated on Carl.
I wasn't there Sunday (too Hot) but I think any purposeful contact after the race should be met with at least one year suspension... Drivers are taking off their Helmets and gloves and are unstrapping harnesses and are not tensed up and ready for a rear ender.... I would have beat Douglas's (that's an A followed by two dollar signs...) right on the podium if he had done that to me!!! Using the Nascar comparison, I mean, what if.... well, you get the picture....

[FW.Productions]

it looked like there was going to be a fight between douglas and renezeder for a little while there. i have footage of it, it'll be in our video from the weekend when we get it cut together.

[Kritter]

I thought sundays race was awesome and there was no foul play.

If they wanted to make this truly for the fans then all tickets would be dropped to $10, parking to $5 and the stands would be PACKED as they should be and beer and food sales would bring in more revenue to make up for the decreased ticket price.

I would say that the stands werent even 25% filled on sunday and thats the best day to go since they dont have to fix the truck to race the next day.

I wouldnt pay for tickets at the current cost to attend and I know several other hardcore race fans with the same thinking.

[Inland Hills Photo]

It definitely got a little heated on Sunday...

[hoeker]

I thought sundays race was awesome and there was no foul play.

If they wanted to make this truly for the fans then all tickets would be dropped to $10, parking to $5 and the stands would be PACKED as they should be and beer and food sales would bring in more revenue to make up for the decreased ticket price.

I wouldnt pay for tickets at the current cost to attend and I know several other hardcore race fans with the same thinking.

i don't understand why jim can't understand this simple concept. he admits he's loosing millions on the series right now and he even said they didn't ask for one penny from the normall CORR sponsors. if this is the case the pitance he's bringing in with gate fees doens't help either. make the tickets 10 bucks except the top 10 rows, make those 20 or 25 and FILL THE STANDS!!!! everybody that sees CORR racing loves it, we just need to get them there once!!

[Kritter]

He is probably losing money because all that land is worth millions...the oppurtunity cost of a race track.

[napaman]

As any business and corr is a business you always lose money in the beginning. You have to stick to your plan and eventually you will make money. It doesnt happen overnite. At least not always. If Jim has a business plan and sticks to his plan Corr will turn profitable. The corr series is going to draw a lot of desert racers. It is much more affordable.

[Jack]

I'll keep going to the desert to watch races, I can bring my own comfy chair, my own shade, and my own drinks. Tickets are free.

[green787]

I really do think they should lower the ticket prices until the stands are full.... I don't think it helps anything to have sparsely populated bleachers.... Long Beach Grand Prix gives away thousands of tickets for Friday practice... Then the vendors make money..

[napaman]

I dont know for sure but I believe that friday practice is free a chula vista as well. But I have never enjoyed a desert race in a lawn chair as much as watching start to finish short course racing. You can watch a driver blow a turn, spin out or just flat out school the whole field. Sometimes that driver that blew the turn can get back into the race and either win or battle back for a podium spot. You don't see that in desert racing. You get 20 -30 seconds of actual view time of the car and if it is a lap course you get to see the car or truck for a minute or minute in a half for the 12 hour day. I enjoy watching the skill of a desert racer just as much as the next guy but if I had to choose one or the other I would pay to sit and watch short course

[FW.Productions]

yes, friday practice is free at chula vista.

[Kritter]

I dont know for sure but I believe that friday practice is free a chula vista as well. But I have never enjoyed a desert race in a lawn chair as much as watching start to finish short course racing. You can watch a driver blow a turn, spin out or just flat out school the whole field. Sometimes that driver that blew the turn can get back into the race and either win or battle back for a podium spot. You don't see that in desert racing.

Desert racing doesnt have a yellow flag to bunch all the cars back up when the fast guys run away with it...


You get 20 -30 seconds of actual view time of the car and if it is a lap course you get to see the car or truck for a minute or minute in a half for the 12 hour day.

20-30 seconds, times 40 TTs and 30 C1s...is a lot of action in your face all at once...hit two spots in one day and thats hours of action and bench racing with fellow fans for the price of gas to get there.

Im just playing the other side of the coin...I was impressed on sunday being my first time watching a corr race in person, but had I paid to get in...I would have been left wanting more.

[hoeker]

but had I paid to get in...I would have been left wanting more

come to crandon labor day weekend and see it ALL go down!!

[napaman]

both NAPA buggies are going to crandon. I also will tell you crandon charges the drivers for an entry fee as well as everybody else on the team. See you there Ross

[sickrick]

both NAPA buggies are going to crandon. I also will tell you crandon charges the drivers for an entry fee as well as everybody else on the team. See you there Ross

Yes, Crandon does charge the drivers and crew for a pass.

But camping is super cheap, $30 per vehicle no matter how many are in the vehicle. One year we had 10 people in the rv and camping was $3 per person for the whole weekend.

Also the beer can be bought by the case in the stands, and at $30 per case we make it back just on beer savings.

[JBofSD]

Anyone know for sure what Renezeder got a 10 point penalty for. I have heard rumors it was for Low tire pressure and ride height too low. Just trying to find out the definitive.

[hoeker]

the penalty was for rough driving. the incident may not have recieved a penalty if he hadn't been warned and recieved a black flag earlier in the race.

[hoeker]

corr drivers get into crandon for free, gate fee is cheap as are pit spots.

i thought formula 4x4 drivers did to??

[FrankHahn]

Anyone know for sure what Renezeder got a 10 point penalty for. I have heard rumors it was for Low tire pressure and ride height too low. Just trying to find out the definitive.
It was for the alleged contact with Douglas. Low tire pressure or low ride height was never discussed or accused.

It seems to amaze me the “best driver move” of the weekend was penalized? Remember I could be bias… But all the comments posted were not bias.

Carl comments, “We’ll take our licks, and move on. We have the second half of the season remaining; we need to win the PRO4 Championship by more than 10 points”.

I can assure you one thing; you will see Carl “The Fence Climber”, climb again.

[napaman]

the same move happened to me on saturday after that silly yellow restart. i'm not mad about it i just wish i would of thought of it first. after the car came inside on me and made contact i had a tire go down and no black flag on anybody. but then again we are just buggies. the little people that fill in time slots.

[gwm]

So, after all these posts it appears the question is do you want racing or "action"? I prefer racing. If JB picks "action" and doesn't figure out how to fill the stands (It can be done, but not with a single price point) this thing is toast.