Composite tech

[Ron_Burgandy]

I took a composites class awhile ago, very interesting. I was wondering if off-road racing fiber glass technology has gone anywhere. Or has this segment of the industry been left untouched. With the high costs of producing such large products you would think that slightly better material would reap benifits if it lasts longer. Like say, hybrid composites, that is Arimid(kevlar)/Glass, or Carbon/Glass. Apperently these two don't cost much more then just fiberglass reinforced plastic. The Arimid/Glass hybrid has considerable better tensile and impact strength. Or is there room here for a start up company, thanks.

[sickrick]

The problem with offroad fiberglass is that it sees 2 types of damage; scratches/small holes or total distruction. I don't know if you can ever get fiberglass/kevlar/carbon to survive the major impacts?

Vacuum molded lexan, Flexible abs plastic, anyone have any thoughts on these materials also.

[JESSE_at_TLT]

There was a discussion on DeZertRangers (http://dezertrangers.com/cgi-bin/ib/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=1;t=31347) about Urethane body parts a while ago. I was very interested and spoke to someone from the company (manufacturer of aftermarket body kits for import cars) once, but they never followed-up with me. I think it fizzled-out. They might have been discouraged by the responses they got from other forum members.

[Chris_Wilson]

Unless it will survive being beaten by a Project tire coming apart at speed
and high speed impacts with tree branches it's not worth any more money
because it will still need to be replaced when those things happen.

[FlyHiFlyLo7]

Unless it will survive being beaten by a Project tire coming apart at speed
and high speed impacts with tree branches it's not worth any more money
because it will still need to be replaced when those things happen.

Yep, Glass is the way to go for off road.

I do like the Urethane idea but it's heavier and the tools (Super large vac form) and tooling are quite a bit more. Now that these Rhino type bedliners are putting a major dent in the the bedliner industry bodies could be a supliment product to the bedliner manufactures.

But, I think a Urethane bedside would also need some structure to keep its shape.

Glass works real good. A whole body (8 pc.) is less than 100lbs.

[Scott_F]

Over 30 years ago, dirt bikes came with aluminum or fiberglass fenders. Plastic fenders instantly obsoleted them. I think they are HDPE. The injection molded plastic fenders do not crumple or shatter like aluminum and glass. I am determined to have no fiberglass on my truck. I plan to make some out of plastic, even if they don't have the oem look of fiberglass with the molded contours and lines.

[sickrick]

Snowmobile hoods are a good example they were made of fiberglass and cracked anytime you hit something. You can stand on the hood of a new snowmobile and they will flex and dent but will pop back into shape with very little damage.

[movindirt]

Can you say "Saturn".. I think plastic would be awesome on a prerunner. Glass might still be the way to go for race apps due to weight.

[Hollowpoint]

I know fiberglass can be made with different color gel coats... but colored plastic, like motorcycle/snowmobile plastics may help chipped paint issues, or the constant repainting of replacement fiberglass for team colors.

[Ron_Burgandy]

Unless it will survive being beaten by a Project tire coming apart at speed
and high speed impacts with tree branches it's not worth any more money
because it will still need to be replaced when those things happen.

Bullet proof vests are made from Aramid (also UHMWPE or Spectra), Boeing's new airplanes are like 50% composites by weight (mostly carbon fiber, which is the reason for the world wide shortage), bridges are being built from glass/aramid composites. Hybrid composites can easily achieve higher specific tensile and specific impact strengths then steel!!! Not saying that its always cost effective, but every other industry seems to be seeing the benifits that advanced composites offer. This sport is saturated with bling, why settle for ho-hum fiberglass? Obviously tounge in cheek here but why not at least entertain the idea?

[highlandraceteam]

wouldnt the urethane warp a little on the trucks?

[ntsqd]

Bullet proof vests are made from Aramid (also UHMWPE or Spectra), Boeing's new airplanes are like 50% composites by weight (mostly carbon fiber, which is the reason for the world wide shortage), bridges are being built from glass/aramid composites. Hybrid composites can easily achieve higher specific tensile and specific impact strengths then steel!!! Not saying that its always cost effective, but every other industry seems to be seeing the benifits that advanced composites offer. This sport is saturated with bling, why settle for ho-hum fiberglass? Obviously tounge in cheek here but why not at least entertain the idea?

Ever seen the "star cracks" in road racer noses and other 'glass parts that cover the tires? Those are little rocks thrown by little slick tires. And the cracks are in everything ranging from polyester/glass to epoxy/carbon-kevlar. The military uses leashes to keep a simple wrench from hitting any composite parts. That's a big hint to me.

The fiber can be 100X stronger than steel, but if the resin cracks the whole thing is useless b/c the resin is required to keep the fiber strands oriented correctly.
If you're going to use the higher end fibers then you also need to 'plate' any areas subject to having rocks thrown at it with heliocopter tape or similar.

Fenders made from PE, PP, or similar I think would have a lot more promise.

[FABRICATOR]

There are lots of composite dashboards, radiator shrouds, and inner body panels. A few vhicles with composite air inlets, air cleaners, seats, and even complete bodies.

With proper design, there is no reason we can't be using composite steering shafts, pedals, and mufflers. With some protection, upper control arms and perhaps tie rods are feasable (especially rear steer).

Without a doubt, the single biggest performance gain possible for TT's would be a composite rear axle housing. Unfortunately, it could also be one of the most in-depth design excercises known to off-road racing.

Even the best driver's blast the bodies out there. Whatever they're made of, needs to be able to go back together fairly easy.

[Ron_Burgandy]

Well then, how cool would a clear lexan TT body be!?

[Chris_Wilson]

The new Swift Toyota Atlantic formula car has gone back to fiberglass body work
to reduce costs.

[Superfab]

I could just imaging the composite rearend after hitting a rock at 80mph! POOF! For body panels there are flex additives you can use so the glass is a bit more pliable. Hand laid panels with the right resin or epoxy with the excess removed will give you a part that will take much more abuse.

[Tech Tim]

The circle track guys are now getting some plastic body panels out and they withstand a lot more abuse that 'glass.

It'd be curious how well they would stand up to desert abuse.

[JESSE_at_TLT]

Hi Tim-
Could you post any links, pictures or more information about those plastic body panels for those of us that don't keep up with circle track? Thanks.

[ntsqd]

I'm reasonably certain that the roundy parts are urethane. It and PE look to me to be the leaders for body parts.
Structure is a different thing. I'm sure it can be done at a comparably reasonable price, but it's going to take someone willing to pursue it for it to happen. And it will require that the Tech guys have an open mind about it since the ideal design & fab are so totally different.