Class 10

[MX808]

Could you run a chevy v-4 in a class 10? How would the cc's compare to a honda motor and would it be legal to run in class 10.

[mgobaja]

The engine has to be something that was mass produced and readily available to the general public in the US. And did not displace more then 2000 cc;s in stock form.

Throttle body also must be production type ( OEM ), readily available.

So since I believe the V-4 was a custom built race aplication it will not fall under those parameters. But I could be wrong.

[Dezertpilot]

No the limit I believe is 1650 or 1750cc and the Scat/Chevy v4 is way to big to run. That would then be a class 1 car.

[MX808]

Thanks alot. I was just wondering about that. Thanks.

[mgobaja]

No the limit I believe is 1650 or 1750cc and the Scat/Chevy v4 is way to big to run. That would then be a class 1 car.

but you could change the displacement by sleaving the cyclinders as well if it fit the other rules.

[Bradly]

No the limit I believe is 1650 or 1750cc and the Scat/Chevy v4 is way to big to run. That would then be a class 1 car.

no the limit is 2000 cc's we run a 1997cc's or 8 in our 10 car. chevy makes a little 4 banger, im not sure if its legal though my friend has one in his pos s-10.

[Dezertpilot]

I stand corrected thank u. I swear I thought that it was around the figure that I said, oh well. What is SCORE lite's engine size then?

[Hellfire]

I believe there are different cc limits depending on single vrs double seater, and aircooled vrs watercooled

[Justin]

Page 98 2003-2006 Score rulebook " Any engine may be used providing:
(1) It is a design that has been series produced in quantities of 5,000 units or more and is readily available to the general public in the U.S.A.
(2) It did not displace more than 2000cc in the stock form."

[scvprerunner1]

so can you use a 1985-94 SUBARU DL GL-10 WAGON 1.8lt 1800cc w/TURBO long block engine to race class10? or a SUBARU 2.0 2000cc twin turbo? or there 1.6,thanks i always wanted to know, when im older and have a little more money i want to race class10

[racer951]

No turbo's allowed in any class except sportsman in any organization. It might only be MDR at that for sportsman.

[scvprerunner1]

does subaru make a 1.6,1.8, 2.0 non turbo engine? thanks

[Hollowpoint]

yes they do.. 2.0 n.a.

[Fourstroker]

Hey Guys,

Water Cooled = 1650cc Single Seat and 1750cc 2 Seat

Air Cooled = 2000cc Dual Carbs allowed this year

[Hollowpoint]

I know it's "obvious" why forced induction is not allowed... but let's face it. In the day and age of $15,000, 4.5 liter, ex-NASCAR v6 motors to be competitive in open 7, $20,000 220hp Honda motors in class 10, what is the exact reason why forced induction is not allowed? I know in the past it may have been due to safety, keeping the field level, but those rules have totally contradicted themselves in purpose with the advent of new strategies to squeeze around rules using a @$%!load of money.

Rally, drag, and SCCA all allow forced induction in a competitive field. Turbo'd engines would significantly reduce costs for your average Joe racer to become competitive, whether a 4cyl engine, VW, even v6.

Yeah, I know know the "go run sportsman then" and you can guess my response to that. I also don't take "turbos suck in gallons of sand" as a valid reason, either.

[FlyHiFlyLo]

I know it's "obvious" why forced induction is not allowed... but let's face it. In the day and age of $15,000, 4.5 liter, ex-NASCAR v6 motors to be competitive in open 7, $20,000 220hp Honda motors in class 10, what is the exact reason why forced induction is not allowed? I know in the past it may have been due to safety, keeping the field level, but those rules have totally contradicted themselves in purpose with the advent of new strategies to squeeze around rules using a @$%!load of money.

Rally, drag, and SCCA all allow forced induction in a competitive field. Turbo'd engines would significantly reduce costs for your average Joe racer to become competitive, whether a 4cyl engine, VW, even v6.

Yeah, I know know the "go run sportsman then" and you can guess my response to that. I also don't take "turbos suck in gallons of sand" as a valid reason, either.


Turbos would make a huge gain. If class 10 allowed 2.5L Turbo motors they could take OA easy! That would be awesome! Think of an older 250LB CART motor = Turbo V-8 with 1100hp. Think of all the Honda dorks that would come over to Off Road.

[Justin]

I know in the past it may have been due to safety, keeping the field level, but those rules have totally contradicted themselves in purpose with the advent of new strategies to squeeze around rules using a @$%!load of money.


Allowing forced induction would do nothing to save money. Teams would still try to "squeeze around the rules using a **BAN ME****BAN ME****BAN ME****BAN ME****BAN ME** load of $". The only difference would be more HP.

[mgobaja]

[$20,000 220hp Honda motors in class 10, :

Who is getting this kind of horespower ? Is this a guess on your part or possibly a flywheel estimate ? I know what the 10 I chase for gets and it isnt this high..

[Hollowpoint]

I think that brings up a new discussion.. not so much a limit on the process of aquiring the power, but perhaps a limit on overall power. Unfortunately that opens up another can of worms which I, or anyone else that I can think of, wishes not to get into(look at the 7s engine situation, for example). Not to mention that hp is obviously harder to regulate than say.. inches of travel.

220 hp, 200hp, I don't know, I was basically making a statement on the general range and price.

On another note, there is a range of "usable hp", just like usable travel.. the excess having its own cons. I'm assuming if 1,000 hp, for example, had a home in modern desert racing, some of the mega budget teams would have gotten in the 4 digits and then some. (850hp is pretty damn close, though.. but I digress) It is a fact, though, that it's not uncommon for "garage tuners" to reach the current unlmited hp output on modified, but production turbo engines on a fraction of the budget. That's my very personal take.. I don't intend to change the sport, just pointing out the irony of the circumstances that I see. :D

[Outcast]

Is Hp really a big factor in Class 10? Isn't acceleration still basically traction dependent in that class? I would think that the main focus of the powerplant would be reliability with enough power to at least roost the tires.

[Ramsey_ElWardani]

Is Hp really a big factor in Class 10? Isn't acceleration still basically traction dependent in that class? I would think that the main focus of the powerplant would be reliability with enough power to at least roost the tires.
Horsepower or the lack there of really comes into play in sand washes and more so at top speeds. It takes a lot of horsepower to push an aero-pig past 100 mph.

[jamoffroad]

due the rules say 4cyl ? because if you really want to build a odd ball motor the rules say 1650 cc . well in the mid 90s mazada built a 1600cc v6 and that would be legal because it was in a car ( i beleive a 323 )sold to the public . hard to find but would be cool start to build up.

[FlyHiFlyLo]

due the rules say 4cyl ? because if you really want to build a odd ball motor the rules say 1650 cc . well in the mid 90s mazada built a 1600cc v6 and that would be legal because it was in a car ( i beleive a 323 )sold to the public . hard to find but would be cool start to build up.

Dude, it's Do not "Due". LOL

The rules say the motor could not have been over 2.0 from the factory. I looked at the 2.0 Mazda V-6 that came in the Probe and 626 two weeks ago (Is this the motor you were thinking of?).

It would be a cool way to think outside the box. The Rules don't say 4cyl. I was thinking awesome! But, the rules do say 8 and 16 valve. As a result...The Mazda V6 will not fly because it is 24 valve.

Go back to the drawing board.

[FABRICATOR]

There was someone with a DKW powered car many years ago out of Utah. Very fast and reliable. The DKW sedans, from Auto Union [Audi], came with very heavy duty water cooled 900 and 1000cc 3 cylinder 2-stoke motors. The 1000cc was 90 horsepower bone stock with a muffler and easily capable of at least 70 more.

[Gordon]

What are the fuel restrictions? If you can run alcohol, then an air cooled type 4 VW motor can make all the power you could want, and reliably.

[FlyHiFlyLo]

No Alky... Must be Gas

[Superfab]

One thing to think about is bore size when deciding on a motor. The surface area of the piston directly relates to power transmitted. One example is in air or hydraulic cylinders. The bigger dia piston = higher load rating. Another way to look at it is to push on the end of a pencil. You can't apply as much force on the pointy end as you can to the blunt end. A motor with too small a bore size won't develop as much grunt off the corner as one with a larger bore. Like anything, there are limitations. You could build a S200 honda by de-stroking it and of course custom pistons & rods. You couldn't reduce the bore much due to the chamber dia of the head unless you want to weld it up and reshape it. The be16 motors are'nt too bad if built correctly. The honda motors are pretty damm good if built correctly and the hardest part is finding a reliable, finiky capable motor builder that will back up his stuff.

[BAPerf]

One thing to think about is bore size when deciding on a motor. The surface area of the piston directly relates to power transmitted. One example is in air or hydraulic cylinders. The bigger dia piston = higher load rating. Another way to look at it is to push on the end of a pencil. You can't apply as much force on the pointy end as you can to the blunt end. A motor with too small a bore size won't develop as much grunt off the corner as one with a larger bore. Like anything, there are limitations. You could build a S200 honda by de-stroking it and of course custom pistons & rods. You couldn't reduce the bore much due to the chamber dia of the head unless you want to weld it up and reshape it. The be16 motors are'nt too bad if built correctly. The honda motors are pretty damm good if built correctly and the hardest part is finding a reliable, finiky capable motor builder that will back up his stuff.


You are partially correct here, but there are other factors that make the correlation between Bore diameter and "work" done by the ignited air-fuel mixture. Stroke is generally a factor, but not as much as some think. Cam timing and piston acceleration rates have a part in the power output. Also, the main advantage to a larger bore is increased area for valves. The down side is thermal efficiency, and in some extreme cases it makes high compression difficult to attain.

[FlyHiFlyLo]

You are partially correct here, but there are other factors that make the correlation between Bore diameter and "work" done by the ignited air-fuel mixture. Stroke is generally a factor, but not as much as some think. Cam timing and piston acceleration rates have a part in the power output. Also, the main advantage to a larger bore is increased area for valves. The down side is thermal efficiency, and in some extreme cases it makes high compression difficult to attain.


IT'S ALL ABOUT INTAKE FLOW AND PISTON SPEED.

A longer stroke will induce longer higher vacuum pressure.

A shorter stroke produces quicker vacuum.

If you run a short stroke with a large bore the engine will produce power at high RPM.

A longer stroke with reduced bore will make power at a low RPM.

A smaller bore tends to shroud one side of the intake valve. <- I Hate That.


Does class 10 allow big blocks?... Ahhhh the best of both worlds. LOL

[FABRICATOR]

...big blocks?... Ahhhh the best of both worlds. LOL

You're making me sweat...:)

[FlyHiFlyLo]

You're making me sweat...:)

Yes... Detroit! Home of the Big Block!