Class 10 Motor Combinations

[FlyHiFlyLo7]

What do you think is the best engine combo to run in a class 10, 2 seater.
What make engine, what mods, Service life, and how much horsepower are they making.

ENGINE LOCATION & DISPLACEMENT
Any engine may be used providing:
A. It is a design that has been series produced in quantities of 5000 units or
More and is readily available to the general public in the U.S.A.
B. It did not displace more than 2000 cc in the stock form.
C. It retains a maximum of four valves per cylinder.
D. It does not displace more than the following:
E Air-cooled engines may use dual carburetors. or stock fuel injection


Water-cooled engines

Two-seat 1800cc – 8 valve Single two-barrel carburetor

Two-seat 1750cc – 16 valve Single two-barrel carburetor or stock fuel injection with max throttle body of 58.5cm

Air-cooled engines

Two-seat 2000cc – four cylinder push rod

F) Single and two-seat vehicles may use one carburetor providing:

1. It retains a maximum of two ventures per carburetor.

2. Maximum allowable venturi size is 42mm.

3. Carburetor(s) must be of the production automotive type.

G) Fuel injection is stock production with the following restrictions:

1. Intake manifold will remain as delivered by the manufacturer. It must retain it’s stock shape, size, and configuration. No porting or other modifications. Ports may be matched to the heads, but matching may not exceed .250” (1/4 inch) deep. Manifold must be the unit that was installed and delivered on the engine by the original manufacturer. Only U.S.A. delivery fuel injection is permitted. Manifold must be installed and sold on production vehicles for street use in the U.S.A. and be readily available to the general public.

2. Throttle body must be production (OEM) type readily available to the general public in the U.S.A..

[Aflac]

Call Adam Wik in las vegas he owns Wiks Racing he will piont you the right way.

[Will_Higman]

[QUOTE=FlyHiFlyLo7]What do you think is the best engine combo to run in a class 10, 2 seater.
What make engine, what mods, Service life, and how much horsepower are they making.

Wiks Honda!

Will Higman

[jamoffroad]

best motor comb for class ten is LS1 and step up to classs 1 . or spend all your money on motor work and rebuild every race.

[zjohnson]

Depends upon the power and reliability issues you are willing to face. If you want liquid cooled, go with a Kroyer, torque monster for a 10 car, but very $$$$. Otherwise, I'd say go with the air cooled 2 liter, great motor, lots of torque and learn how to drive it . . .

[Fourstroker]

Otherwise, I'd say go with the air cooled 2 liter, great motor, lots of torque and learn how to drive it . . .

Make sure that if you go air-cooled that you go with a Type 4 - 2 Litre. The Type 1 does not have the torque.

[ntsqd]

Make sure that if you go air-cooled that you go with a Type 4 - 2 Litre. The Type 1 does not have the torque.

From memory the T4 2000cc uses a 66mm stroke while the T1 1600cc uses a 69mm stroke and most of the ~2.0 T1's employ a stroker crank.

[FlyHiFlyLo7]

best motor comb for class ten is LS1 and step up to classs 1 . or spend all your money on motor work and rebuild every race.

There is a fine line between the two. However, I think I might have the right power to weight combo for the lower horsepower deal.

[Fourstroker]

From memory the T4 2000cc uses a 66mm stroke while the T1 1600cc uses a 69mm stroke and most of the ~2.0 T1's employ a stroker crank.

The tType 4 @ liter uses a 72 Crank and 94 pistons. You can do exactly the same combo with a Type 1 but you will get less torque. Alot less

[ntsqd]

The tType 4 @ liter uses a 72 Crank and 94 pistons. You can do exactly the same combo with a Type 1 but you will get less torque. Alot less

How is that?

[jamoffroad]

if you going with air cooled run class 12 . almost as fast but cheaper to keep up but still to win your going to spend 5,000 a race to freshin up motor. class is tough and two seaters are not very competive to heavy. the hondas are the class of class but they are handgrenades they run great but by the end they blow up . run LS1 in MDR,MORE and learn to read terrain and drive then try the fast guys in the pros (SCORE,BITD) but why listen to me ? was crew cheif for class 12 champ two years in row . raced 10 before 12 was opened , 1/2 1600,class 9 champs before that but just my idea on what to do. not talking down to class 10 guys just my 2 cents .

[FlyHiFlyLo7]

if you going with air cooled run class 12 . almost as fast but cheaper to keep up but still to win your going to spend 5,000 a race to freshin up motor. class is tough and two seaters are not very competive to heavy. the hondas are the class of class but they are handgrenades they run great but by the end they blow up . run LS1 in MDR,MORE and learn to read terrain and drive then try the fast guys in the pros (SCORE,BITD) but why listen to me ? was crew cheif for class 12 champ two years in row . raced 10 before 12 was opened , 1/2 1600,class 9 champs before that but just my idea on what to do. not talking down to class 10 guys just my 2 cents .

Sounds like solid advise. I have heard these Honda Guys have to pull the pin before the race starts...But... Do they really? After all it is a Honda. Hondas and Toyotas should last longer than a VW... I think maybe these guys are running 18:1 or something crazy. I'm not looking for the race win. However, I think I can run good with 225-250hp. I just don't want to spend 7K every race just so I have the cold comfort that my motor will not blow to smitherines during the race.

I have ruled out a class 12 deal. I don't want to run a beam front end.

I'm considering a duel role for the build effort. Race car / Sand car. So simplicity and reliability is something I shooting for.

But... I know some would say you can't eat your cake and still have it. What the hell I may come close.

Anyone reading this run a 16V water pumper?

[FlyHiFlyLo7]

but why listen to me ? was crew cheif for class 12 champ two years in row . raced 10 before 12 was opened , 1/2 1600,class 9 champs before that but just my idea on what to do. not talking down to class 10 guys just my 2 cents .

Jam, I want to listen to you... But you say all this stuff about being crew chief for this and that. Who was that for? I see you race TT also... Kewl! For who? I really need your expertise here. I was hoping for some real class ten guys (who actually race) to chime in, but... I guess I will have to settle for some guy who says this and that like he must really know his stuff. Please enlighten me oh God of all off road teams ever ran.

[ShaneR]

Jam, I want to listen to you... But you say all this stuff about being crew chief for this and that. Who was that for? I see you race TT also... Kewl! For who? I really need your expertise here. I was hoping for some real class ten guys (who actually race) to chime in, but... I guess I will have to settle for some guy who says this and that like he must really know his stuff. Please enlighten me oh God of all off road teams ever ran.


On tight technical courses I can see the Air Cooled cars doing great with all the torque but on most SCORE course you just don't see Air Cooled cars winning in class 10 as much as the Honda's.

Honda's can be reliable and do not require as much work as a Toyota to get the same power. With reliablilty you won't have the same horsepower as someone who is willing to spend the money to rebuild the motor every race, and I don't mean just freshen it up I mean the guys that build these motors to go just as many miles as the race is to get every bit of horsepower they can out of them. Call Adam Wik, he builds a very strong and very reliable Honda!

Have a race motor built to race with and build a grendade if you have to, to keep up with the other Honda's out there but I realy don't think you have to have the most horsepower in class to win races, and you should still get more life out of a built Honda than a built Toyota. Then build a Honda B20 with a B16 head. The block is the same but a little bit taller and will mount in the same as the B16 and you will have 2.0 liter motor with VTEC and get more torque and be able to run pump gas to go play. You get the full race motor and a play motor that bolts right in with out changing anything but the 2.0 isn't legal for class 10.

[FlyHiFlyLo7]

On tight technical courses I can see the Air Cooled cars doing great with all the torque but on most SCORE course you just don't see Air Cooled cars winning in class 10 as much as the Honda's.

Honda's can be reliable and do not require as much work as a Toyota to get the same power. With reliablilty you won't have the same horsepower as someone who is willing to spend the money to rebuild the motor every race, and I don't mean just freshen it up I mean the guys that build these motors to go just as many miles as the race is to get every bit of horsepower they can out of them. Call Adam Wik, he builds a very strong and very reliable Honda!

Have a race motor built to race with and build a grendade if you have to, to keep up with the other Honda's out there but I realy don't think you have to have the most horsepower in class to win races, and you should still get more life out of a built Honda than a built Toyota. Then build a Honda B20 with a B16 head. The block is the same but a little bit taller and will mount in the same as the B16 and you will have 2.0 liter motor with VTEC and get more torque and be able to run pump gas to go play. You get the full race motor and a play motor that bolts right in with out changing anything but the 2.0 isn't legal for class 10.

Do you have Adam's#? I have the old one in Anaheim.

I have been doing some research and have figured some stuff out. I can Run a B20 block with a B16 crank and it is under the 1750CC limit. There are many very cool products for the Honda. Like the Dart Block and Dart CNC ported B16 head. Scat cranks, everybody is making rods, cams, roller finger followers, pans, Cam gears, Valve covers, there is just tons of really nice AMERICAN MADE bits and pieces out there. About the only Jap would be the timing cover and intake plenem (only because the stock one is required).

Don't the Honda motors spin the opposite way stock?

[mgobaja]

yes they are reverse rotation.

[FlyHiFlyLo7]

yes they are reverse rotation.

Who makes reversed cams?

[jamoffroad]

fly hi fly lo , crewed for john holmes and dave callaway class 12 champs first 2 years of class , also in class 9 with them and winners of last baja to lapaz . crewed for marty coyne in tt , and many others in the last 20 yrs of racing been racing since 83.

[FlyHiFlyLo7]

fly hi fly lo , crewed for john holmes and dave callaway class 12 champs first 2 years of class , also in class 9 with them and winners of last baja to lapaz . crewed for marty coyne in tt , and many others in the last 20 yrs of racing been racing since 83.

What do you race now?

[jamoffroad]

crew for a couple friends in 1/2 1600 , class 1, tt . may drive at 1000 in either 12 or 1600 dont know yet still need to work out whos driving were and when dont have map yet so have to wait and see. leaving for primm thrus nite or fri am to pit for some friends racing in 1600. and maybe help marty and travis out in tt , or maybe cameron steele in tt and 12 wont know till i get to primm.

[FlyHiFlyLo7]

wont know till i get to primm.

Kewl... That will be great. When you get there are you going see who's willing to let you hang in their pits all day? Or are you just going to cruz from pit to pit? When you chase what are you chasing? When I use to co-drive we had a few guys chase beer and abandoned blowouts. Where are you staying in Primm or are you camping in Baker?

[jamoffroad]

you are such an a** fly hi always stiring up the sh** im staying at BB and will be helping out my friends so if you had any maybe you would be going to help instead all you do is talk about how you and robby are buds and you probly dont even know him .. so ask all you want but if you must talk trash about people go on but you asked who i know and help and i told you but i guess you must feel left out so keep punching your key board and dreaming of going to the races some day while some of use go to the race and help are friends.

[roscoe]

Hay jamoffroad did you use to race a mean pro 2 also?

[FlyHiFlyLo7]

you are such an a** fly hi always stiring up the sh** im staying at BB and will be helping out my friends so if you had any maybe you would be going to help instead all you do is talk about how you and robby are buds and you probly dont even know him .. so ask all you want but if you must talk trash about people go on but you asked who i know and help and i told you but i guess you must feel left out so keep punching your key board and dreaming of going to the races some day while some of use go to the race and help are friends.

LOL..."fly hi always stiring up the sh** im staying at BB"

I'm not familiar with "BB" is that Bun Boy in Baker? Maybe you can Chase for the Stroppe Bronco out front? Can me and Rosco help out. If you want we can hook that tow bar on the front of your ranger to my Lexus V8 and I can get you out to Primm where the race is. LOL

[roscoe]

Jam any motor info would be great?
comp ratio
rod length
valve lash settings
cam grind
any other tricks you might have up your sleeve

[FlyHiFlyLo7]

Jam any motor info would be great?
comp ratio
rod length
valve lash settings
cam grind
any other tricks you might have up your sleeve


Perhaps he could also give us some of the more basic stuff: Crankshaft endplay, Ring gap, and proper deck height, recommended rod bearing clearance, exhaust and intake cam timing tricks, and most importantly proper muffler bearing tolerance?

[FlyHiFlyLo7]

Jam any motor info would be great?
comp ratio
rod length
valve lash settings
cam grind
any other tricks you might have up your sleeve

Rosco, I noticed one of his tricks was to take a magic wand and wave it over a bug motor and turn it into a LS1.

[roscoe]

Rosco, I noticed one of his tricks was to take a magic wand and wave it over a bug motor and turn it into a LS1.


I would like to know some info on chassis setup? maybe jam could turn my pile of tubes into a ten car, with his wand.

[FlyHiFlyLo7]

I would like to know some info on chassis setup? maybe jam could turn my pile of tubes into a ten car, with his wand.

He is bad to the bone. Actually he was pitting for a CUP team at California Speedway last year. I cought this pic of his team. He had a mean Type 4 in it!

[roscoe]

Wow he is good to be able to set a bug up to run with a cup car.I bet he has every big name team offroad team wishing for a guy of his skill level to run the show.

[J_Lothringer]

Honda, Honda, Honda................Wiks, Wiks, Wiks...............Anymore question??? Dont bother with an aircooled unless your going to race mdr, or more............Trust me been there done that.............Spend the dough on a reliable honda (no need for a hand gernade), And you will be able to hang..............Build a lite car that actually works and a reliable motor and you will have a winning combo, And as for up keep my honda was cheaper than my 2.0 vw to maintain and build??? The only main expense over the air cooled is the injection/Injection (buy Motec, or Pectel). The biggest thing with the hondas is finding a good "Tuner" to play with the computor (the magic box) hope this helps.....................

[FlyHiFlyLo7]

Honda, Honda, Honda................Wiks, Wiks, Wiks...............Anymore question??? Dont bother with an aircooled unless your going to race mdr, or more............Trust me been there done that.............Spend the dough on a reliable honda (no need for a hand gernade), And you will be able to hang..............Build a lite car that actually works and a reliable motor and you will have a winning combo, And as for up keep my honda was cheaper than my 2.0 vw to maintain and build??? The only main expense over the air cooled is the injection/Injection (buy Motec, or Pectel). The biggest thing with the hondas is finding a good "Tuner" to play with the computor (the magic box) hope this helps.....................

Dude you Rock! Thanks for the info. Now I can deal with that. What kind of HP/RPM are you getting? PM me if you can say...I also needs WIKS#

[ShaneR]

Dude you Rock! Thanks for the info. Now I can deal with that. What kind of HP/RPM are you getting? PM me if you can say...I also needs WIKS#

Wiks # = 702-837-2522!

[FlyHiFlyLo7]

Wiks # = 702-837-2522!


Thanks Dawg!

[FlyHiFlyLo7]

"The only main expense over the air cooled is the injection/Injection (buy Motec, or Pectel). "

Whats the Motec deal cost?

[14802]

Simple term's A-lottta money. For your application you may be around $ 1500-$3500.+ depend's on how elaborate you want to go.. blah blah???? Find the application that is right for the motor you build..

[jmason912]

Just for a comparison for you desert guys. I run a Honda (one of two) in the CORR series with 11.5:1 compression with a 45 DCOE side draft weber with 29mm venturi's. I have as much if not more power than the high strong Toyota's and VW's that run in the class. I have a total of 13 sprint races on it without changing a thing other than oil and plugs. The engine has the same power as it did 13 races ago. Never did a valve job in that time and never checked leak down. My engine builder told me to run it, don't fix it if it ain't broke.

Just finished up the season at Crandon and finished forth both days with 28 cars in the field. I easily kept up with the Toyota's and VW's throughout the race, just not enough time to get around them.

I can also say that the top Toyota's in the field need to be freshened up throughout the year to keep up with the competition.

[SPROCKET]

Honda Say No More. In The Early 90s We Were Getting About 210 To 220 Hp
Out Of The Jap Spec B16 Engines. I Had A Crx That We Raced Scca Gt4 Class In 94 95 96 All We Did Was A Valve Grind And Rings In The Middle Of 1995. Granted Road Racing Does Not Deal With All The Dirt That You See Off Road But A Good Air Filter(ump) Should Work Just Fine.
We Estimate Between Racing And Practice This Engine Had About 7400 Miles On It When The Car Was Sold. At That Time The Builder Charged Us $5500.00
To Overhaul.
The Most Important Thing Is Tuning And Motec Is The Only Way To Go. Its Easy And When Tuned Right Makes All The Diff.
Both My Friends With Nissans And Toyotas Had Major Engine Failures And Not Near The Hp We Were Putting Out.
I Know Rick Ellison Runs Hondas And I Believe Its A Majors Motor. He Has Run Both Jimcos And Mileniums And Is Allways A Front Runner.
Good Luck With Your New Car.
My Personal Recommendation Is To Make It A Race Only Car. Or You Will Never Find Time To Prep It Correctly.

[SPROCKET]

Honda Say No More. In The Early 90s We Were Getting About 210 To 220 Hp
Out Of The Jap Spec B16 Engines. I Had A Crx That We Raced Scca Gt4 Class In 94 95 96 All We Did Was A Valve Grind And Rings In The Middle Of 1995. Granted Road Racing Does Not Deal With All The Dirt That You See Off Road But A Good Air Filter(ump) Should Work Just Fine.
We Estimate Between Racing And Practice This Engine Had About 7400 Miles On It When The Car Was Sold. At That Time The Builder Charged Us $5500.00
To Overhaul.
The Most Important Thing Is Tuning And Motec Is The Only Way To Go. Its Easy And When Tuned Right Makes All The Diff.
Both My Friends With Nissans And Toyotas Had Major Engine Failures And Not Near The Hp We Were Putting Out.
I Know Rick Ellison Runs Hondas And I Believe Its A Majors Motor. He Has Run Both Jimcos And Mileniums And Is Allways A Front Runner.
Good Luck With Your New Car.
My Personal Recommendation Is To Make It A Race Only Car. Or You Will Never Find Time To Prep It Correctly.

[FlyHiFlyLo7]

Simple term's A-lottta money. For your application you may be around $ 1500-$3500.+ depend's on how elaborate you want to go.. blah blah???? Find the application that is right for the motor you build..


that's not too bad. I thought it would be in the 7-10K range.

[FlyHiFlyLo7]

B20 CRV only 1997-2000 Check out this intake compared to the standard Integra B20 intake.

Characterized by the tall intake manifold. "aka the tunnel ram, or the giraffe"


Any advantage?

[FlyHiFlyLo7]

Look at this setup.

[powerbox_builder]

That looks like an Echotech (Saturn/Slaab). I hear of a few guys working those into class 10 motors. Should be seeing them on the track soon. Turnkeyenginesupply.com sells 2.2 liter for prerunners/sand cars. The race versions come from a 2.0 liter application.

[FlyHiFlyLo7]

That looks like an Echotech (Saturn/Slaab). I hear of a few guys working those into class 10 motors. Should be seeing them on the track soon. Turnkeyenginesupply.com sells 2.2 liter for prerunners/sand cars. The race versions come from a 2.0 liter application.


Yes it is.