KORE suspension for Dodge 2500 4x4

[dunerking]

I picked myself up a 01 Dodge 2500 4x4 with the Cummins.The truck is stock height and that is where I would like it to stay.But the ride is on the harsh side,I did a little searching and came across the KORE suspension systems,looks to be a better set-up than anything else out there(bolt on).And of course it really needs a set of Deaver rear springs.I was looking to hear some input with someone that has the system or sells the system,or maybe some other options.Thanks

[tech kid]

go to pirate4x4.com then to the reviews section and one of the webmasters did a review on it, he had nothing but great things to say about it

[tech kid]

http://www.pirate4x4.com/articles/productreviews/kore

there, found it and made it easy for ya

[Brandon_Charley]

The kit they sell is supposed to be they same kit they used to finish third in stock full at the 04 Baja1000.

[mfs]

i have a 2004 dodge 4x diesel, needs better shocks for sure. it all ready sit almost too high stock, pain in the butt to put the bike in the back,they did a show about that kore kit on xtreme 4x4 on tnn.

[mfs]

autofab has a kit also 12"travel

[jeff]

I am also a Dodge 2500 4x4 diesel owner. I've been doing some thinking about how I'd like to improve on the ride quality and suspension performance on the rough stuff. I don't really want to lift it. An inch or two in the front max. I've got 35's under there on stock wheels with zero lift and no rubbing. The back end is a little high for my taste so an inch or so up front would be just about right.

To the original poster...
Have you weighed your truck. The front is HEAVY. Really heavy. Cummins heavy. There is no way the factory shock can provide the necessary damping required for off-road use. I can heat mine up running on paved mountain roads. Running a bigger 2.5" shock valved for the truck is the way to go. A pair of Fox 2.5 smoothys will run about $800.00. Custom upper and lower shock mounts could be fab'd up pretty quickly - maybe 4-5 hours shop time, probably less. If a single 2.5 isn't your cup of tea, you could use existing dual shock brackets (Cepek, Fabtech) and run two 2.0's on the front end. A set of sway-bar spacers and hardware could be put together using a less exotic process (without a machined logo) for less than $40.00 bucks. The bump stops KORE is using appear to be the same ones that Dick Cepek started using in their Dodge kits back in the 1990's. Those things are cheap and I have a source for them (Cepek). Coil springs are the only semi-tricky part. I don't know if my truck needs more spring. I don't plan on running it hard, but a little more spring rate might be necessary. These trucks use different springs on the driver / passenger side so the springs KORE has made might be a pretty penny. I've considered re-using the factory coils with a machined down 2" coil spacer. I'd machine the spacer down because I want slightly less than 2" of lift. The coil spacers run about $100.00 bucks for the pair. Some limiting straps and another hour or two of shop time and the front would be pretty good to go. Oh yeah, a better steering stabilizer might be needed if the factory one takes a poop. In the rear I will probably run a complete replacement Deaver pack. I'll have to call Jeff someday soon and see what he's got for these trucks. Deaver springs with an air bag setup will run about $800.00 to $850.00. Rear shocks, either a 2.5 smoothy ($800.00 pair) or a 2.5 bypass ($1400.00 pair). Rear limiting straps and mounts, another hour or two in the shop. The above totals out to about $2700.00 without shop time. With the proper shock valving the above should work pretty good on and off-road.

I don't doubt KORE's (T-Rex) quality. Never have. Their products appear to be top shelf. The high price might be because of dealer related issues. Perhaps the price is jacked up so that a W/D price structure could be created. I understand it has to remain profitable for the manufacturer to supply its dealers. Everyone has to make a buck. Most bigtime W/D's expect to get about 40 to 50% back of jobber. Smaller shops need 15-30% to make it worth their time. I have no problem with anyone making a buck. The problem I see is that the product doesn't quite warrant it's retail price tag. With some number crunching I just don't see how there's $4180.00 worth of parts in the KORE race kit. Again, not knocking the product, I understand they are in the business to make money, but I can't get my head around the price.

Aloha

[mfs]

thank u! i was going to post the same thing he's like $1400 over priced. also noticed the price went from $3500 to $4180.i havent heard of other shops having this kind of mark up because of the retall price of most of these parts is already set. $110 for a spacer?stainless bolts?
i say go get some kings and have some one fab u up an upper shock mount.they bolt on in the rear. also u can pull out 2 small spacers in the leaf pack and lower the back 1". fabtech made a leveling coil for this truck they dont have it in the catalog but i know they made 1 use to work their & i installed 1 on a friends truck and it rides good.

[dunerking]

I was thinking the same thing(price).I was thinking about running either the 2.5 or a 3.0 if it would clear the i.d. of the spring.The one thing that I was really liking in there set-up was the upper shock mounts,which kept it much like a stock set-up.I really do not want the truck to sit any higher.Spoke with Jeff at Deaver about losing the blocks in the rear and doing up some nice springs,just got to find time,and with a 2 month old girl time is scarce.Thanks for all the input.

[jeff]

A product is only over priced if the market won't support the price. If the kits are selling at that price and he can't keep up with demand, well more power to him. If however the kit sales are low I'd be the first to say it's price related.

MFS - Any idea if the Fabtech springs were driver and passenger side specific? If not no biggy. A call to Danny on Monday should be able to answer my questions.

Aloha

[tech kid]

anyone got anymore info on the autofab kit? found nothin on there site and am very interested

wes

[mfs]

heres some pics autofab sent me. ya he needs to update hes site. just e-mail him. u will fall over when u hear the price.
jeff- the springs i got went on a gas truck but they had different ones because the first one we put in made it to high, was like 6 years ago. sales guys proply dont even know they have them.

[steveG]

I don't have any experience with Autofab's Dodge products, but I've used John's kits on a 2wd Ranger and a 4wd Explorer. Yes I about fell over when I he told me the price, but I can assure that every time I took the trucks out I was blown away by the performance. I was so impressed by those two kits so much that I just purchased a third kit from him for my Bronco.

Expensive? Yes. Worth it? Absolutely.

[jeff]

Anybody know what coil spring Autofab or KORE is using? I don't think I want to go the spacer route. I'd rather run replacement springs.

Those Autofab pictures have been around for a while. I'm afraid to ask how much John gets for that kit. If it's anything like his Ford 16" travel kit pricing it won't be cheap. I don't have a problem paying for high quality stuff, but when the pieces are as simple as the ones for a Dodge Ram, I take offense to the prices being charged.

I had a pair of Bilstein 6647's sitting at the shop (by chance) and installed those yesterday. No noticeable improvement over stock. Will the Bilstein 5100's last longer than the stockers? Probably. Do the 5100's look better than the stockers? Yeah. Does the truck ride better on or off-road with the 5100's? Nope! Rear spring changes and a tuneable shock are going to be required. I think I might lower the rear today by pulling some of the factory "spacers" out.

Aloha

[tech kid]

I am also a Dodge 2500 4x4 diesel owner. I've been doing some thinking about how I'd like to improve on the ride quality and suspension performance on the rough stuff. I don't really want to lift it. An inch or two in the front max. I've got 35's under there on stock wheels with zero lift and no rubbing. The back end is a little high for my taste so an inch or so up front would be just about right.

To the original poster...
Have you weighed your truck. The front is HEAVY. Really heavy. Cummins heavy. There is no way the factory shock can provide the necessary damping required for off-road use. I can heat mine up running on paved mountain roads. Running a bigger 2.5" shock valved for the truck is the way to go. A pair of Fox 2.5 smoothys will run about $800.00. Custom upper and lower shock mounts could be fab'd up pretty quickly - maybe 4-5 hours shop time, probably less. If a single 2.5 isn't your cup of tea, you could use existing dual shock brackets (Cepek, Fabtech) and run two 2.0's on the front end. A set of sway-bar spacers and hardware could be put together using a less exotic process (without a machined logo) for less than $40.00 bucks. The bump stops KORE is using appear to be the same ones that Dick Cepek started using in their Dodge kits back in the 1990's. Those things are cheap and I have a source for them (Cepek). Coil springs are the only semi-tricky part. I don't know if my truck needs more spring. I don't plan on running it hard, but a little more spring rate might be necessary. These trucks use different springs on the driver / passenger side so the springs KORE has made might be a pretty penny. I've considered re-using the factory coils with a machined down 2" coil spacer. I'd machine the spacer down because I want slightly less than 2" of lift. The coil spacers run about $100.00 bucks for the pair. Some limiting straps and another hour or two of shop time and the front would be pretty good to go. Oh yeah, a better steering stabilizer might be needed if the factory one takes a poop. In the rear I will probably run a complete replacement Deaver pack. I'll have to call Jeff someday soon and see what he's got for these trucks. Deaver springs with an air bag setup will run about $800.00 to $850.00. Rear shocks, either a 2.5 smoothy ($800.00 pair) or a 2.5 bypass ($1400.00 pair). Rear limiting straps and mounts, another hour or two in the shop. The above totals out to about $2700.00 without shop time. With the proper shock valving the above should work pretty good on and off-road.

I don't doubt KORE's (T-Rex) quality. Never have. Their products appear to be top shelf. The high price might be because of dealer related issues. Perhaps the price is jacked up so that a W/D price structure could be created. I understand it has to remain profitable for the manufacturer to supply its dealers. Everyone has to make a buck. Most bigtime W/D's expect to get about 40 to 50% back of jobber. Smaller shops need 15-30% to make it worth their time. I have no problem with anyone making a buck. The problem I see is that the product doesn't quite warrant it's retail price tag. With some number crunching I just don't see how there's $4180.00 worth of parts in the KORE race kit. Again, not knocking the product, I understand they are in the business to make money, but I can't get my head around the price.

Aloha

man, for 2700 ill just pay the just over 3k for the core chase kit. i mean they have engineered their stuff really well, so i think that it would be worth it to buy their stuff. its been race proven and ive heard only great things about it. the one thing i HAVE to have in a suspension is somethin that can handle a load, cause my truck is goin to serve many purposes, from gettin me back to a remote camping spot, to possiby chasing, to towing my 32 foot stock trailer. this is why i think the systems from KORE are well worth it, they have been tested and the testimony i have heard has all been great, but thats just my 2 cents on the subject

wes

[jeff]

Wes - Either you didn't completely read my post or you misunderstood it. When I calculated my pricing I included an upgrade or two that the Kore "Race" system doesn't include. Things like full replacement Deaver leaf spring packs instead of the add-a-leaf mini pack. Item for item, I could put together an equivalent Chase system for less than half of KORE's asking price.

Front Coil Springs = $200.00 (pair)
Fabricated Upper Shock Mounts = $200.00 (pair)
Fox 2.0 w/Res = $750.00 (set of 4)
Bumpstops = $50.00 (pair)
Sway Bar Drop Brackets = $40.00 (pair w/hardware)
Rear Deaver mini-pack = $250.00 (pair)

That totals less than $1500 bucks. It's basically a complete "Chase" system for 1/2 the price. Like I said before, I totally agree that KORE offers a great product. I just can't for the life of me understand the pricing. At my good guy price I could shave a couple hundred off the above $1500.00 price and get the same performance for less than half the cost.

Aloha

[dunerking]

Who's front coil springs do you run?T-Rex?I'm getting really close to wanting to do this to my truck.My truck is going to serve the same exact uses,it needs to be a true dual sport.To bad KORE doesn't sale there shock adapter.It seems that it would cheaper to piece it together.

[mfs]

Who's front coil springs do you run?T-Rex?I'm getting really close to wanting to do this to my truck.My truck is going to serve the same exact uses,it needs to be a true dual sport.To bad KORE doesn't sale there shock adapter.It seems that it would cheaper to piece it together.


yea anyone that can add could see that. just have a fabshop (like me) build u a upper mount out of steel i think it will look better any way. i already know how i would do it.once i do one i will build a jig and the next one will be cheap.u will also need res. mounts made. just need to find sum one to pay me to do the first one.thow me a bone here.

[tech kid]

yea anyone that can add could see that. just have a fabshop (like me) build u a upper mount out of steel i think it will look better any way. i already know how i would do it.once i do one i will build a jig and the next one will be cheap.u will also need res. mounts made. just need to find sum one to pay me to do the first one.thow me a bone here.
ive thought about that too, soemthin like autofab does cant be too terribly hard for any competant fabricator to do. where i run into an issue is the front coils, where am i goin to get somethin that works. ive thought about buying the kore leveling kit for the coils then havin the rest fabbed by a buddy along with a basic cage for the inside

wes

[mfs]

cant be that hard to find coils u only need 1-2" lift. get them made if it comes too it

[Kent Kroeker]

Gents,

Sometimes things appear simple on the surface:D , but if you dig a little you find it's a bit more complicated than it appears.

I read through this thread and would like to take a moment to clear up a couple of misconceptions.

“The kit they sell is supposed to be they same kit they used to finish third in stock full at the 04 Baja1000.”

Not exactly. :cool:

We used full Deaver leaf packs and special, proprietary coils that have an integral tender (droop) spring. We also used a special 3” diameter shock in front and rear. Although it’s good for racing, this kit isn’t something we sell because it’s murder to install and is pretty sloppy on the street. The leaf packs perform great off road but aren’t good for towing or hauling heavily. At ride-height, the upper coils touch and make an obnoxious rattle when the truck’s just idling. Because the way a five link moves the shock in a circle, you have to open up the diameter of the spring bucket to allow the shock to articulate. Then you don’t have enough surface for the mount, so you have to TIG some .500” plate on top and install the mount from the bottom, since there’s only enough area for 7/16” bolt threads and not enough area on the aluminum mount to capture a nut and washer. The rear shocks have a single rebound tube because I like the rear to ride high at speed. We experimented with three-tube shocks but they didn’t work as well because with only 14” of travel, on a truck this heavy, there’s really no point at which you can afford to let compression tubes open – no matter how stiff the valving. Since the rear isn’t linked, the rear shocks also have to provide some limit to axle wrap and wheel hop. A solid column of compression helps this.

The “Race kit” KORE sells uses the same basic tech, ;) but it’s more of a compromise that allows you to install it without cutting up the truck and retain towing capacity and good street manners; but you can still make Coco’s from San Felipe in about two hours. The average guy isn’t going to bash whoops at Plaster City in his 40,000 dollar Dodge. But he will want to load his truck with SCUBA tanks and a week’s worth of gear then go fast on rough, washboard roads. For this kind of driving you don’t need a 3.0 shock. In a 3rd Gen Ram doing 60 – 70 mph on the road to Puertocitos, the Fox 2.5’s we use average 165 degrees (@ 85 degrees ambient). You still have to slow down for the vados, but by the time you reach the coast, the shocks are all the same temp – 165 degrees. These low temps have to do with spring rate and valving. Lots of testing helped us get what we wanted – at least 10 iterations of coils, 8 different mini pack combinations and over 100 revalves. Some of you who are used to 20 + inches of travel may raise an eyebrow at these temps, but remember, we’re dealing with only 10” of travel in these trucks. When the shocks go over 200 degrees they go away. Bashing whoops leaving Santo Domingo during the 500 inspired the transition to the 3.0 shock for the 1000.

So now let’s talk about what you really need to do to get the 2.5” shocks on a Dodge.

“Running a bigger 2.5" shock valved for the truck is the way to go. A pair of Fox 2.5 smoothys will run about $800.00.”

You can’t buy our shocks from Fox. They have a special shaft length, body length, reservoir size, hose length, valving and piston bleed holes. They were designed by KORE and Fox builds them for us. It’s not an off-the-shelf product you can order or get from Kartek (unless it’s with our kit). The shaft length etc. has to do with the geometry of the Dodge. The steering limits how much travel you can get. You can’t put a longer shock up much higher because you’ll have to relocate your batteries and the shock will hit the spring bucket when the axle cycles. It will “clunk,” sideload the shaft and eventually blow seals. You can’t put a shorter shock lower because then you limit overall travel, or reduce your “bump” travel. The reservoir length (and fluid level) is such to provide a pneumatic ramping effect that helps the relatively short 10 (+/-) travel shock imitate position-sensitivity that a longer reservoir can’t provide. We use Fox shocks for several reasons – thousands of shocks on Rams worldwide in many different climates and conditions and not one QA problem is one reason.


Next you have to figure out how to get a 14mm Dodge bolt through a ½” hole (Fox 2.0) or space it properly for the 5/8” ID of the 2.5’s. We make misalignment spacers from 17-4 stainless or 4130 to accomplish this. Fox 2.0” shocks won’t work without modifying the OE lower mounts as well.

Now you have to mount the reservoirs. Where? What hose length do you use? How do you put the reservoir somewhere where it won’t rub a tire, interfere with the sway bar or hang down in harm’s way? You do it with KORE reservoir brackets and mounting hardware.

“A set of sway-bar spacers and hardware could be put together using a less exotic process (without a machined logo) for less than $40.00 bucks.”

So you droop out the axle, check your end links, measure the sway bar relocation point, go buy some square tube, drill it, box it, then find the metric bolt size, length etc. and hope you get it right the first time. The machined billet parts that come with all our kits is 70 bucks more.:rolleyes: You bolt it on and forget about it.

“The bump stops KORE is using appear to be the same ones that Dick Cepek started using in their Dodge kits back in the 1990's. Those things are cheap and I have a source for them (Cepek).”

Not the same bump stop. Not cheap. Ours may look similar because it’s designed to fit in the same cup, but it’s a different unit. KORE sells two different versions of this bump stop. They look identical but have two separate durometers. One is softer and one is harder. They’re for two different kits that have two different purposes. KORE bump stops limit bump travel to keep the upper control arm mounting flange off the spring bucket – especially on the passenger side. With OE bump stops you’ll get metal to metal contact there as the resiliency of the OE bump stop deteriorates. We don’t use bump stops on our shocks because the geometry of our systems doesn’t permit the shock to bottom on itself.

“Coil springs are the only semi-tricky part. I don't know if my truck needs more spring. I don't plan on running it hard, but a little more spring rate might be necessary. These trucks use different springs on the driver / passenger side so the springs KORE has made might be a pretty penny.”

That’s correct. Our springs are really expensive to make, mainly because there’s so much metal involved. They do need a bit more rate over stock – especially for the CTD-equipped trucks. Ours are so good we guarantee them for life.

“In the rear I will probably run a complete replacement Deaver pack.”

You’ll never get anything better than what Deaver makes. If you plan on towing/hauling with your truck, you’ll probably want to run a mini pack. Our mini packs are made by Deaver – 70 lbs. of steel and they come with zinc-plated u-bolts. You take off your factory overload leaf and install the KORE mini pack. Simple.;)

“Perhaps the price is jacked up so that a W/D price structure could be created. I understand it has to remain profitable for the manufacturer to supply its dealers. Everyone has to make a buck. Most bigtime W/D's expect to get about 40 to 50% back of jobber. Smaller shops need 15-30% to make it worth their time.”

Nope. Not for us. KORE products are all made in the USA, even our limit straps – reducing the cost 50% would be much less than it costs us to produce, let alone insure, pay employees (cost of doing business etc.)

“I was going to post the same thing he's like $1400 over priced. also noticed the price went from $3500 to $4180.i havent heard of other shops having this kind of mark up because of the retall price of most of these parts is already set. $110 for a spacer?stainless bolts?”

We raised the price from $3500 two ways. First we went up 10% - inflation, raw-material surcharges, cost of doing business etc. Our prices were the same for almost four years. We couldn’t eat it any more. Next we included a limit strap kit, heavy duty coils (formerly a $100 option) and billet drop blocks in every kit – about $300 worth of stuff that every system should come with anyway.

“I just can't for the life of me understand the pricing.”

Let’s break it down:

Parts:

Four totally custom Fox 2.5” remote reservoir shocks designed to work with KORE coils
Four custom, zinc-plated Reservoir mounting brackets with hardware
Eight stainless hose clamps
Sixteen custom-machined Misalignment spacers

Two custom 5160H coil springs designed to work with KORE shocks – 65lbs of steel, powder coated, two separate part numbers, one for the driver’s side, one for the passenger side.

Two Mastercraft quad limit straps – proper length to keep the shocks from topping out, but not limit wheel travel.
Two limit strap tabs (weld on)
Two grade eight bolts for lower tabs
Two stainless butt head bolts for upper mount
Four grade eight nuts

Two Deaver four leaf mini packs – 70 lbs. of steel – Jeff won’t sell them to you directly – it’s a KORE part. He will buy them from us to sell to you
Four 9/16” zinc-plated U-bolts – Deaver makes the U-bolts for us, then we zinc plate them. They’re not the same U-bolts that everyone else uses – the parts that come from India
Eight zinc-plated washers
Eight zinc-plated nuts

Two Billet drop blocks machined from 6061 then clear anodized and coated
The shape matches the shape of the Dodge swaybar mount
Four stainless metric cap heads
Four stainless washers

Two bump stops - correct durometer for the application.

Two 6061 CNC machined billet shock mounts. These parts start out as a solid, 40 lb. hunk of Kaiser (domestic - i.e. expensive) 7” round then spend over an hour on a CNC lathe, then several more hours on a 4 axis machine. Then they’re clear anodized and sealed. Since I’ve got a patent on these and there’s no part like this on the market, the only thing I could compare them to would be the $2000 billet A-arms Rough Country makes.

http://rough.roughcountry.com/Chevy_99-05_6Xin.htm

Then there’s a part we call a “sleeve clamp” – zinc-plated 4130 – a design you’ll soon see on some production stuff from other companies.

Also a pair of 14mm grade 12.9 cap heads that have been zinc-plated and heat-treated for hydrogen embrittlement.

Two water-jet-cut 1/4” 4130, TIG-welded and zinc-plated stud-rings that mount the aluminum shock towers.

Six grade eight lock nuts
Six grade eight AN washers

The whole point of this is that if you ad up the cost of these parts – if you could even get them somewhere else, it would cost way over $4180 - for single units or pairs. You would be into shocks (Fox catalogue price) and mounts alone for something like $3600 because if we retailed our towers they would be around 2k for a set – much like the Rough Country A-arms. We don’t sell the towers separately for several reasons.

1. The mounts are a certain height and they’re made to go with a certain shock.
2. Without special spacers you can’t fit a shock in there (14mm bolt).
3. We don’t want a truck that rides crappy that says KORE on it. Our springs are designed to work with our valving which is designed to work with our shocks which are designed to work with our mount. We’ve done years of testing to get it dialed and our reputation depends on the way the truck rides.

Now ad special coils, leaf packs, billet drop blocks, limit straps, U-bolts, etc. = $580 more? Is that really out of line? Is that so “offensive”? :eek:

We don’t break down individual part pricing this way because we don’t sell certain parts alone. But if we did, that’s how it would work out.

Unless you take production to China and India, a product of this magnitude can’t be sold for less than we sell it for. If it could be, we would be copied – or at least imitated. I mean four years and a thousand systems? Nobody out there is making a kit to compete with us. And there’s a reason for it. Following the distribution models of large lift kit companies, you could never mass-market a product this expensive to produce. By the time it went to a national distributor, local distributor/wholesaler, retailer/installer and onto the truck of the end-user it would cost something like $12,000. That’s why we can’t follow normal distribution models and survive. Nobody would buy our stuff. But because it’s only $4180 we sell the heck out of it.

If you’re a fabricator you could create a system similar to a KORE system. Swayaway and King make great shocks and will make odd-length shocks - if you buy enough of them. You can get one-off coils from several manufacturers. Trial and error will give you the correct rate, free length, set height, and solid height. You could have National or Deaver make you some leaf packs. You could fabricate misalignment spacers and reservoir brackets. You could fabricate shock mounts and stud rings. There’s a reason why we don’t make ours out of steel:) . You could find out why on your own. Then you have to spend numerous hours pulling shocks off and revalving until you get the truck to feel right.

If your time isn’t worth anything and you could get a mixture of off-the-shelf and fabricated components to function to your liking, you could, theoretically, have a similar system that could cost less than ours to produce. For some, this time-consuming process is infinitely satisfying. It can be really rewarding to dial your own personal set up.

Competent professional fabricators are not cheap - or fast for that matter. Backyard Billy with a MIG welder is cheap and fast, but do you want him working on your truck that cost 40K:eek: ? If you actually pay someone good to fab a system (Mirage, Nester, Jake, Penhall) - and keep paying until it performs like ours – testing, revalving, tweaking, finding the right durometer of bump stop:D , eliminating weaknesses, changing dimensions to account for wear, etc. I would be willing to bet that you will far-exceed the price of a KORE system - partially by changing/replacing parts, partially by the endless hours of R and D.

The people who understand this buy our systems to the extent that we have a very difficult time keeping them in stock. It's not for everyone, but it's good stuff that's not over priced. Testament to that is a relatively large and very satisfied customer base.

Best Regards,

Kent Kroeker
KORE

[tech kid]

wow kent, thanks for all the info, definitly opened my eyes up quite a bit as to where your cost comes from. when it comes time for me to make the dive into doin this ill be ordering a chase kit from ya, got about another year to go though

thanks again for all the info, really like that you came in here and filled us all in

wes

[CRAIGHALL]

I'm pretty sure KARTEK had the kits in stock to at least look at.

[Kent Kroeker]

No problem, Wes.

I like talking about specific tech stuff and I think race-dezert.com is a great forum for it. The hard-core fringe like you guys understand it, so I don't feel like I'm wasting my time.

I live and breathe off-road suspension day in and day out, so it's nice to share my
passion a bit.

Just wish I had more time for it.

Cheers,

Kent

[dunerking]

Kent,thanks for taking the time to inform us.I had found out about your kits on TDR.com,also alot of good info.Great to see that your product is made in the USA.Keep us updated on any new stuff.

[jeff]

Props to Kent. I've said all along that your product kicks ***. Good to see that you have a passion for what you do. It's a niche product that has obviously found a strong market with the high end customer. And like I said, if you can't keep it in stock, it's not overpriced.

Aloha

[pphat]

Hey Kent,
Can you give us the scoop on the new billet control arms? I know they're supposed to provide more clearance for tires... what else do they do? Any more travel? And, hey, just out of curiosity, how much travel is the KORE system pulling? (And yes everybody, I know, it's not the length of the travel... it's the quality.)

[Kent Kroeker]

The new billet arms are much stronger than the stock parts. And they free up about an inch more travel on the passenger side - not because they're aluminum, but because of the bearing design. For this part, aluminum was the only choice in order to hit all of our design parameters. We wanted adjustability which would have been easy with tube and bungs. But we also wanted more tire clearance, so the part couldn't be made out of tube; it had to be sculpted. Aluminum was the only choice - and 7075 was the stuff. We're also making steel arms from rectangular tube. They use the same bearing tech as the aluminum units but they're not adjustable, nor do they offer more clearance. However many don't need these features.

All of our systems offer about 10" of travel - usually a little more in the rear. This is the maximum long-term articulation you can get out of OE steering components and drivelines. We recently got a hold of a new Powerwagon, bumped and drooped the heck out of it, measured everything and then tested it off road - what a great truck! Essentially Dodge imitated the geometry of our kits - or they had been working on it for a long time and just designed what made sense - like what we did four years ago. Seeing this confirmed a lot of my theories about the big Rams - and also reinforced my opinions about the truck's maximum safe driveline and steering angles.

Cheers,

Kent Kroeker

[pphat]

Thanks for the info!

One more question: Have you done any experimenting w/ the Fox internal bypass shocks on a Dodge Cummins application?

[Kent Kroeker]

We know from using 3-tubes on the back that compression bypass on a truck this heavy isn't going to work as well as a solid column of fluid. 9000 lbs and limited travel are not a happy formula. On a light weight race car, internal bypass is really trick. Tube-in-a-tube technology is superb for going fast when it's all dialed in perfectly. I did the left fork of a 525 KTM like this once and it was amazing how good it was. You could pin it in sixth over the most heinous whoops imaginable. I did the San Felipe arches to Three Poles in 28 minutes with those forks - absolutely the best set-up I ever had on that bike. It also represented close to 40 revalves and a lot of TIG welding, filling and respacing holes on the cartidges. Marzocchi sold factory forks like this for CCM's in the mid 90's - they were incredible off road. They used a vertical slot instead of holes. But it was a long road to hoe to get it to work right. Bore spacing on the tubes and hole size is so important when you've only got 10 to 11 inches of travel to work with. Then once you dial the formula for high-speed off road, how do you tow or haul safely with a "loose" mid-stroke? For towing and hauling you need a lot of low speed control (shaft speed) and an internal bypass shock wouldn't give enough of that if tuned for max performance at high (shaft) speeds. So, understanding these simple principles, we didn't persue the internal bypass option. Not to mention, it would have increased the cost of our system while simultaneously narrowing its performance envelope.

-Kent