Deep Sump on my baja.

[WannaB-class5]

So my new motor has a deepsump oil pan which is 3" lower. I had to drop the skid plate another inch below there killing me with a 4" loss of ground clearance. I am going to have to lift the rear a bit and thats no problem but are there any other options.

I don't race and am going to add an external oil cooler. I know baja bugs love more oil but I am loosing a lot of performance with this. I was on the MORE course yesterday and anything with some ruts killed me.

Should I just get a new motor? Is there someone out there any of you trust to cut an oil pick-up tube and do it right? I run 32" tires and thats all I really want to use (Desert traks) Any help would be wonderful!

[Benny Boy]

ever thought about using a dry sump. This sounds expensive for a vw, but there may be a cheaper solution, if you can run the scavenge pump off a belt drive and have a custom oil pan fitted. This would also allow for an external cooler. the pump would have sufficent flowrate for the cooler, you could also have a temperature activated thermostat for the cooler with a bypass. You would also need a place for an oil tank. This may sound a bit crude, but if you dig up some old porsche 911 parts, IE hoses, oil tank, you could save some coin, or if the wallets full, call up fat performance, I ve seen dry sumps on their motors. Hope that helps, By the way all this will increase your ground clearance again, by getting rid of the lower sump, which I imagine is a scat model, or something similar.
Later

BB

[MikeAdams]

Take that thing off. They are not good for anything other than a street car, and I don't see the advantage there..

Full flow it and run an external cooler/filter like all the rest of the cars.
http://www.dune-buggy.com/techtips/fullflow/ shows an easy way to do it.

[WannaB-class5]

Messing with my new motor is not something I want to do...do you know if anyone in SoCal does this and about how much. The only VW guy near me SUCKS and I will never take my bug back to him. Oh and Full Flow means no oil pick up tube? Thanks

[MikeAdams]

I don't know anyone in Pomoma that does v-dub work...but taking the deep sump off is lick- just unbolt it and take the longer pickup tube off, it's usually hose-clamped on. Then just put on a stock cover. That long 'pickup tube' thing you are seeing isn't stock, it comes with a deep sump kit.

I would pick up a Bently manual and read through the motor section to get familier with the internals, unless you have more money than time. There has to be a good motor guy up there. Isn't Kar-Tec in your area? They would know of a good shop. I'm actually going to make a trip to Rimco to get some machine work done, not sure if they would mess with that or not... http://www.rimcovw.com

[ntsqd]

Messing with my new motor is not something I want to do...do you know if anyone in SoCal does this and about how much. The only VW guy near me SUCKS and I will never take my bug back to him. Oh and Full Flow means no oil pick up tube? Thanks

Full flow means that ALL of the oil sent out by the oil pump goes thru the remote filter and cooler. Only exception would be if you buy the Berg by-pass cover and not the std Berg cover. BTW, the Berg pump covers are the ONLY cover to buy. I've used others, none of them work as well as the Berg parts.

The pressurized air shown in the linked page being blown into the oil pressure sender port is the key to keeping the chips out of the engine. I know of several engines that have been successfully converted this way. Obviously the ideal would be to make this mod with the engine apart, but this method does work. Some grease on the tap is a good idea too.

[mustafa]

There's a shop in Azusa on Arrow Hwy called Steve's Foreign Auto (I think that's the name) and they've always been fair and reasonably priced.

[WannaB-class5]

Thanks all. I already tried to just take the deep sump off, but the pickup was done "right" and brazed on so I can't get it off without cutting it. If I were to cut it too long or short I get no oil....not good. I think I will just run this putter and get a new motor down the road when I can afford something that is built for hi revs and race type conditions.

I will call the shop in Azusa, I hope he can simply guarantee a functioning oil pickup if he cuts it off.

[WannaB-class5]

Okay made the phone call and the guy said get a propane tourch, heat it up and pull it off! If I want to waste my time he will do it for $30. NICE GUY, thanks everyone.

[WannaB-class5]

Okay I am back at it and need help getting this pick up tube off. Is it possible that is welded on? Propane tourch did nothing. Any suggestions? What is that bracket holding on? I know nothing of these internals.

[Superfab]

Looks like they gas welded an extension tube to the stock pickup. The bracket you see is the retainer strap that holds the pickup in place. The stud is longer on the inside and there is a nut on it. The stock tube is inside the one you see. It hangs down 15/16" from the sheetmetal bell. The only way I can think of cutting it off is to clean everything with acetone and then duct tape the bell to the edge of the case hole. Then you need to pull off the engine pulley, then pull the oil pump (they sell a cheap puller just for this job. Use a dremel moto-tool with cut-off wheels (A hobby shop or Wal Mart has these) and cut off the tube. Now spray cleaner in the lower right oil passage hole where the oil pump plugs in. This will flush the grit out of the pick-uip tube. Then get some new gaskets and re-assemble the whole thing. I know it sounds like a pain in the *** but it will work with patience. The only other option I see is to disassemble the engine and do it then.

[WannaB-class5]

Okay you and my friend just confirmed what I REALLY didn't want to hear...its welded on. Can I simply buy a new oil pump (will that have the right tube on it) and if so how easy/hard is this. I have all the tools I need, I am low on time and knowledge of vw motors!

[Ryno]

The oil pump is on the front of the motor. The pickup tube is what you are referring to. Call Car Craft, Rimco, etc. They will have them in stock. Good luck getting it out without cracking open the case. I guess if you pack the stock sump with shop rags, and cut a dremel type tool with a cut off wheel, you could cut the pickup off enough to clear the stock plate. Just MAKE SURE you flush the oil out. (shavings, etc) They do sell thin line sumps. I've always been told the more oil you can put in a volkswagen cooling system, the better.

[01_el_tiburon]

The oil pump is on the front of the motor. The pickup tube is what you are referring to. Call Car Craft, Rimco, etc. They will have them in stock. Good luck getting it out without cracking open the case. I guess if you pack the stock sump with shop rags, and cut a dremel type tool with a cut off wheel, you could cut the pickup off enough to clear the stock plate. Just MAKE SURE you flush the oil out. (shavings, etc) They do sell thin line sumps. I've always been told the more oil you can put in a volkswagen cooling system, the better.

Take it to the shop, do it right the first time, dont learn the lesson the hard way.
Ill do the wiring, but i wont touch the engine, not worth me picking in there. Relax, yove got a whole lifetime of racing to do.....

el tiburon

[Superfab]

Here's a picture of the inside of the case. This way at least you know what it looks like and how it's fastened.

[MNotary]

Here's a picture of the inside of the case. This way at least you know what it looks like and how it's fastened.

And the pick-up tube is swedged into the case at the oil pump end (back of the motor, not front).

Stuff something up the tube and cut.

[WannaB-class5]

That pic was crazy helpful...and I am Fu***d! ANyone want to buy a motor or trade?

[bajaruner11]

Look this is an easy fix. Take a small piece of rag soaked in oil roll it up tight and stuff it all the way up into the pickup tube to where it makes the bend. Now duct tape the pick up tube bell to the case covering the gap between it and the case. Take a dremel tool with a cut off wheel and cut off the extended part of the tube at a slight angle (this will insure oil pickup should you cut slightly too long). Carefully cleanup the work area and remove the tape, then using a pair of needle nose pliers pull out the oily piece of rag (this will bring any shavings out with it).
Get an oil change kit (gaskets, copper washers, and screen) and reinstall your original drain plate, ad oil and your done.

[WannaB-class5]

Sweetness! Is there anyway for me to check if my tube has pickup after I cut it (other than frying my motor???)

[Superfab]

If you cut it the 15/16" length I gave you in the top post it will be exactly stock length. Thats measuring from the inside of the bell to the end of tube. Use the stock strainer on the bottom and everything should be fine.

[WannaB-class5]

Okay is that 1/16 of an inch going to matter a lot? I have taped everything off and am going to cut a straight line on the tube, then grind a little on one side (to get that small angle). Should I measure like 5 more times to make sure it is exact? I am nervous, I don't want to blow my new motor up

[Superfab]

The stock one is straight cut on the bottom. Use the stock oil strainer when you assemble it and everything will work like original. I wouldn't hesitate at all to do this. Just be patient and flush everything out when done. Remember the eye protection. Grinding stuff when under something is an easy way to get an eye-full!

[WannaB-class5]

Okay, eye prtection is in hand, wish me all luck and cross your fingers

[WannaB-class5]

Job done, everything looks great, now is there a way to test for oil pressure? I don't want to find out that I have none by blowing my motor up in the dez! Just an FYI, taking off a deep sump is not a simple task. With the info you all gave me it wasn't a big deal but its a big pain in the a**. The studs are a pain and the stock screen can't be used unless cut to pieces.

For anyone that may read this to do it yourself later, buy the older screen kit, it looks ugly but will work perfectly. None of this is valid though unless you are lucky enough to have had the new longer pick up tube welded one....the weld bead is why nothing was fitting!

So really though...is there a way to check for oil pressure?

[bajaruner11]

Yah I should have told you to get the early screen, glad you figured it out.
To check oil pressure I would recommend a dash mounted permanent gauge, this is just plain smart, but if that is not in the cards the quickest way is to remove the idiot light sending unit (sits just below the distributor screwed into the case) and screw in a small pressure gauge (1/8" pipe thread) that reads 0-80 psi or so. Let the engine warm up to operating temp while watching the gauge at all times to make sure you have good oil pressure. Give it a couple revs and see what you have up top. General rule of thumb is 10lbs for every 1000RPM. On a VW you should see 15+ lbs at idle and usually around 45lbs (+-5) at speed over 3000 RPM with a stock system, if your oil system is HD you will see allot more oil pressure, this is ok for VW's they love good oil pressure.
Good Luck.