rearend

[Brandon_Charley]

I found a 1979 Lincoln Mark V with what I'm pretty sure is a 9" and discs. This is as perfect a rearend as you can get from a junkyard, right? They told me $195 disc to disc, that sounds wrong to me, what do you think? Any extra input would be greatly appreciated. Its for a Class 8 Chevy.

Thanks,
Brandon

[WannaB-class5]

Why does this sound wrong? My roomate picked up a 9" on 'half off day' drum to drum for $100. And as for perfect....there are heavy duty 9" that have bigger end flanges (or whatever they are called) and there are 28 and 31 spline 9's. Being out of a car it is likely a 28 but DONT QUOTE ME on that. If you are going with all internal aftermarket parts then sure its a housing but sounds like you are going to run the breaks and therefore the axles....HP will be an issue if its 28 spline (even the 31 have a limit). There are many threads on the 9, one is recent, do a search and you will have more answers. Let us know how the Class 8 comes along. Do you have a plan when you will first race it?

BTW ebay has GREAT deals on complete third members!

[Ramsey_ElWardani]

You better take a look at several Class 8 trucks and get a feel for the level of equipment everyone is running. You won’t find it in a junk yard. That 9” will be too narrow and way too weak to be competitive. Most Class 8 trucks have between $5,000.00 and $10,000.00 tied up in their rear axle. You might get away with $2,500.00 if it is a low budget semi-floater, but if you try to drive it competitively it will break even 35 spline axles. They do make good paper weights though; I have one sitting on my desk right now.

[Brandon_Charley]

As far as the price thing goes I just assumed that if they were that cheap every ranger out there would have one. I expected them to be between $500 and $1000. As far as building the truck and the class go, we don't expect to win, we've never raced we've never built a truck before, we know it would be unrealistic. We want to finish a race and then work on not coming in last, those are the goals of the truck. We will probably start out doing MDR races, they're local, and from what I can tell, if we finish a race we'll be able to tell people we came in first, they don't have to know that we were the only ones in our class.

[Brandon_Charley]

If a junkyard 9" cant be beefed enough to race, what about a dana 60?

[scottm]

Im also thinking about a junkyard 9" for my s-10 class 7200 project. The lincoln rear is definitely too narrow for a 7 or 8 truck. They can be fixed up to work OK, but competetive 8's usually run a Crismann. A fullsize pickup 9" will work for my s-10, but you may want something even wider. Check Currie Enterprises, they sell bare housings pretty cheap that you can build up. Also check the classifieds here on race dez, a trick one comes up once a week or so.

[Brandon_Charley]

I'm not trying to argue, I've pretty much given up on the 9" because of the strength issue, but as far as width goes, especially for a 7, have you seen how wide a '79 lincoln is?

[scottm]

Yeah, I looked at a 78 lincoln 9" and its only 63" flange to flange.

[WannaB-class5]

69 Ford Ecoline Van. 31 splines and 69" flange to flange. It is the same width as a Ranger front that has 6" beams. So far my roomates just has the spring perches but will be trussed soon. And as for cost just because a junkyard axle is $200 doesn't mean everyone can aford it and secondly you have to be able to fab or pay a bit to get the pearches done, and third new breakparts are needed and almost def a new third member with gears and a spool. Add that up and you will know why every ranger doesn't have one.

[Brandon_Charley]

I'm hearing you on why all rangers don't have 9's. What's your opinion on using one for class 8, do you think a trussed 9" with a warn full floater 35 spline kit would take the abuse?

[WannaB-class5]

Sounds like you are getting to a great axle but I have NO experience with high HP 35 spline axles. Full Floater is absolutly the way to go though. Spool it and you can run on one axle if needed. Good luck!

[Josh_K]

Man, Ramsey is tell you the best advise any one can get...Take it!

Suck up to PBR and take a look at his. Then take a look at mine because it is about as low budget as you can get and still have a smoking fast truck.

For parts alone I have about $50K or $60K and the rear end is done on the cheap. IT cost about 5k-form drive flange to flange.

I am done now. Do what you think is right but if you go cheap you will dump about 10 to 15k in it to realize you wasted a good wad of cash and know one what’s it or needs it!

You can stick you head up a steer **BAN ME****BAN ME****BAN ME****BAN ME****BAN ME** to get a good look at a T-bone or you can trust the butcher! What do you want to do?

Josh

[WannaB-class5]

Race 1450!

[Byrdman]

If your going to run a 9'' axle, trust me on this, spend the $ now or you'll spend 3 times as much in the long run. For a heavy class 8, or even a full-size pre-runner- you'll need at least a 1/4" housing, S.V.O center section, 35-40+ spline axles, Nodular carrier, and a really good spool. I'm running a 1/4" Currie housing right now with 35 spline axles and all the goodies, except it's not a full floater, in my 7s Ranger. Trust me, they bend very easy even with a truss.I've bent 2 in the last 2 races. The growing concensus on rear-ends, even for a 7s truck - which is way lighter than an 8 truck is a full floater housing, extra, extra heavy duty, with 40 spline gunn drilled axles!! It may sound too much- but if you want it to live longer than maybe one race- you've got to spend the $. Personally, I would go with a tube works,Chrisman or Sandy Cone set up. Nothing else for a heavy truck with a v8. If you go light duty- get ready for it to break. Sorry Bro.

[baja-chris]

I think a Dana 60 in stock form is stronger than a stock 9". But not as strong as the
9.5" or 10" ring gear setups that are becoming common in the racing 9" rears. In
either case (starting with a stock D-60 or stock 9"), you really have to weld in real
spindles for a floater hub. You can't get away with a bolt on affair like the Warn
floater kit. I think you will regret trussing up any stock housing because without the
.250 wall 4130 housing tubes it will still likely bend under the stress of a class 8.

There really no way to go cheap on the rear end even with a stock motor in a class 8
if you want it reliable. You best bet is to look for a deal on used race setup. I see
Patelli is selling his rear end and rear suspension for $3500. Sounds like a deal.

If building new, Tube Works, Summers, Cone, and Crissman all make suitable spindles
and hubs. Go at least 40 spline 300M for 8 truck axles also. If you are building
a big motor and a heavy truck, then consider gun drilling the 40 spline or even go
bigger. A big engine 8 truck puts just as much hurt on the rear end as a Trophy Truck.
It's not fun to DNF - just build a reliable truck to begin with! Or try a cheaper class...

[Brandon_Charley]

ok, if i go with an aftermarket housing, what do you think about the Competition Engineering Rear Axle housing.

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=967&prmenbr=361

[McClintock]

Mitler brothers are a good housing as well, try checking them out. Prices are decently reasonable.

[ZTFab]

ok, if i go with an aftermarket housing, what do you think about the Competition Engineering Rear Axle housing.

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=967&prmenbr=361

IMO...that would be a no-go on the CE housing....first off it's only made with 1/8" steel and a 1/4" face plate welded together...second, it's only 60 inches wide...not enough for an 8 truck....
If everyone hasn't convinced you to go with a Crissman, Cone, or Summers yet...try Mittler Bros as 1497 suggested or the "9+" line from Currie. I know building on a budget is hard to do but think to yourself...will it be cheaper to build it once and build it right, or build it twice?
Do you have any sponsors that could help with some of the cost? If not, maybe now is the time to start thinking about getting some.....
Hope this info helps bro, good luck.....
BTW...search for the thread that talks about sponsorships if you're interested in creating a proposal...there is some priceless info from some great people and teams that are on RDC.

[Brandon_Charley]

Ok, you guys have won me over, I realize the need for a high quality custom housing. I don't know which one yet, but I'l start figuring it out. I guess that I didn't understand what a real full floater was before this thread, does anyone make a kit or something to do it the right way?

[FullsizeFun]

That lincoln housing is actually the best stock housing you can get. It is 3.25" dia with .250" wall axle tubes. I have built a few of them for rangers. But even at that you are going to need all the internals and a floater kit and you are going to spend $5-6k and have a stock housing that is not wide enough.
Call Kartek for the Pro-Am floater kit and axles.
Currie Housing (or other) - $800
Pro-Am floater kit/ Brakes - $2500
Axles - $800
complete 3rd member - $1200
Prices are generalized but you get the idea.

Racing is Damn expensive. I am trying to build a 5-1600 on a budget, but I am probably going to be in it for $30k when I am done. hahaha.
A class 8 will be $40k minimum.

[Brandon_Charley]

Ok I found the Crissman and Cone websites. The Tubeworks site isn't up. Do the other companies, like Mitler Bros. and Summers have websites.

The Crissman looks like it has got to be overkill, how much can the price of those get up to? Is that the strongest of the above mentioned companies, what does it take to break something like that?

[5150Creations]

i have a dana 60 fully built set up for 3 link. its full floating with 40 spline axles. 2500 bucks.

call me if you are interested. or anyone. 760-518-6971

nathan

[ZTFab]

Ok I found the Crissman and Cone websites. The Tubeworks site isn't up. Do the other companies, like Mitler Bros. and Summers have websites.

The Crissman looks like it has got to be overkill, how much can the price of those get up to? Is that the strongest of the above mentioned companies, what does it take to break something like that?

http://mittlerbros.com/ (http://)
I don't know about summers......

[PBR]

what does it take to break something like that?


it takes the desert to break something like that!!! we run a crisman in our truck and it takes a whoopin!!! it cracks all the time and we just keep welding it back together...

built it right the first time!!! racing on a budget is hard... very hard, that is why we only race when we can afford it(and it's not very often). but if you cut corners on things that take a lot of abuse you will end up spending way more in the long run.

there is a full-floater 9" for sale on dezertrangers.com you may want to check out also.

[sickrick]

I have two well built dana 60 housings that have 4130 tubes and plating I will post pics soon. I bought them at Jack Flannerys auction when he got out of CORR racing.
I believe they are set up for cone or similar hubs. one set has axle shafts the other does not. both are set up for a four link setup. There are no gears or spools. I will take $300 for 1 or $500 for both. I hope you can use one of them, they are too cool not to be used for something.

[Stephen]

How about an GM 14FF for racing on the cheap? They're heavy but with some truss work should be pretty strong. You'd have to mess with the lug pattern but that's been done. I think the limit would be the axle shaft size that would fit through the spindle since if you're going to mess with the spindle you might as well start with another housing. The stock shafts are just over 1.5" though...

[Ryno]

You don't want a 14 bolt FF. Lose too much power to turn it. Just like everything else...if it worked, why isn't someone else using it?

[Brandon_Charley]

Okay, I have listened to everyones advice, and am going to ditch the class 8 idea, its just not smart, I have no experience and even less money. So, I am going to take Paul's advice and race 1450. A Currie Xtra Heavy duty housing with a brace and 40 spline axles should last behind a built 351w in a Ranger, right? I can't afford a full floater kit yet, so if I live through breaking a 40 spline axle I'll upgrade then.

[ntsqd]

You don't want a 14 bolt FF. Lose too much power to turn it. Just like everything else...if it worked, why isn't someone else using it?

It's a moot point now, but this has been bugging me.

I don't think the pinion offset of the 14bff is more than a 9" and is very likely to be less. So the only way it would cost more power to turn would be if the difference in the bearing sizes is enough to use significantly more power. That I highly doubt.

The reason I think the 14bff hasn't seen more race truck use is the ~450lbs dressed weight. That's a heck of a lot of unsprung weight. Going to rear discs will pare that down some. For a low budget full size I think it has possibilities. Just b/c others aren't using it doesn't mean it's not worth considering.

Almost all of the ingredients needed to make a rear axle live in a desert truck are there. Floater design carried on thick walled, large OD tubes, and uses a large R&P and drive axle OD. A true spool option I think is missing, a Detroit being the best diff option I know of.

It would NOT surprise me to learn that one of the 'Custom" rear diffs is using the 14bff R&P. One of the high end buggy transaxles uses a modified Champ Car QC R&P, what not a 14b R&P in a custom housing?

[Brandon_Charley]

Part of the reason we decided to scrap the Class 8 idea is that we couldn't decide as a team on when and what to buy, so we're just going to start out building our own 1450 trucks one at a time. The next truck is probably going to be very similar to the Class 8 we wanted it'll just have a notched, pie-cut, or removed rear frame, and the big block will be pushed back and maybe aluminum. I would like to hear more on the 14bolt because if we could save a little money there and still be strong we'd be that much closer to the aluminum block.

[FullsizeFun]

The next truck is probably going to be very similar to the Class 8 we wanted it'll just have a notched, pie-cut, or removed rear frame, and the big block will be pushed back and maybe aluminum.

I thought you were going to go with a BB to cut costs and have cheap power. Now you are talking Aluminum BB? "Aluminum BB" and "cheap" are complete opposites.
Oh well, Have fun building your race trucks.

[Brandon_Charley]

I will have no part in paying for the second one. The one who's paying for that one has "generous" parents. I didn't want them to pay for "our" truck because then I would be out numberd when it came time for decisions. This way I get to build it with out having to pay for it.

[scottm]

Are you allowed to notch/cut the frame in 1450? What about running a v8 in a v6 truck?

[Brandon_Charley]

From what I've gathered on RDC the only rules are that it has to have a windshield, working doors, and be a truck.

[singlehanded]

From what I've gathered on RDC the only rules are that it has to have a windshield, working doors, and be a truck.
Isnt helton running without windows? What about fiberglass doors are they legal?

[saintsandman]

Isnt helton running without windows? What about fiberglass doors are they legal?
Yes, helton doesn't run windows, alot of people dont. That is legal. Steel cab, working doors, metal or fiberglass, no tube frame. You can cut up the frame.

[JGunn]

It sounds like you should pool your money, then click on the classified section and buy one. I saw the perfect truck ready to go so you can enjoy it right away. You can drive it to make sure it works and plan a budget so you can fix it. This will save you the frustration of not being out there, since it would take you a year to build and then it would still break.

[subrunner]

It's a moot point now, but this has been bugging me.

I don't think the pinion offset of the 14bff is more than a 9" and is very likely to be less. So the only way it would cost more power to turn would be if the difference in the bearing sizes is enough to use significantly more power. That I highly doubt.

The reason I think the 14bff hasn't seen more race truck use is the ~450lbs dressed weight. That's a heck of a lot of unsprung weight. Going to rear discs will pare that down some. For a low budget full size I think it has possibilities. Just b/c others aren't using it doesn't mean it's not worth considering.

Almost all of the ingredients needed to make a rear axle live in a desert truck are there. Floater design carried on thick walled, large OD tubes, and uses a large R&P and drive axle OD. A true spool option I think is missing, a Detroit being the best diff option I know of.

It would NOT surprise me to learn that one of the 'Custom" rear diffs is using the 14bff R&P. One of the high end buggy transaxles uses a modified Champ Car QC R&P, what not a 14b R&P in a custom housing?

This is exactly what I'm going to do. Converting to discs saves something like 90lbs on the 14bolt.

[Brandon_Charley]

We want to do this for racing and building equally, so buying one would kind of take the fun out of it, and we wouldn't get the cool before and after pics. Also, if we only have one truck how do we decide who races and who has to be support. Most importantly we will never agree on anything, I want to make everything, he wants to buy everything. And, I don't want his parents owning/running our race team, his parents are to protective I'll never make it to Mexico.

There are a lot of unfinished projects for under $500 in the classifieds, I think I'll start with one of those.