Bending Water Tube [Archive]

desertracer

March 28th, 2005, 19:01

I wanted to see if anybody knows of a place or shop where I can take some of that 2'' aluminum tube used to run water lines in most race cars and have it bent to our specifications. Can you bend this is any tubing bender? We have some pieces that we would like to bend to simplify things an get rid of the blue silicon connectors. Thanks

McClintock

March 28th, 2005, 19:13

Any competent muffler shop shouldnt have a problem doing this.

ZTFab

March 28th, 2005, 20:19

IMO, I would be careful when going to a muffler shop to have aluminum tubing bent.....99% of muffler shops use a "pressure" bender(bullet bender) to allow for tighter clr when bending exhaust systems and that is why the tubing has a massive neck-down in the center of the bend(especially with lighter gauge tubing)....

First off, do you know what alloy tubing you are using? If it is a 6061-T6 it will already be hardened and not too friendly to bend....it will probably crack with any bend over 10* especially on a tight radius.....trust me, I've tried...

Since my failed attempt at trying to bend some 6061-T6 (1.5"x.120") in my JD2 bender, I haven't tried any since.....but If I were to buy some more, I would definently try 5052 due to the fact that it's soft enough to bend and will work harden as you form it....and from what I know of it, it has great corrosion resistance and is widely used in aircraft hydraulics and other plumbing applications.....jm2c

FlyHiFlyLo7

March 28th, 2005, 20:25

Yeah what ZT said...

It also helps if you use a rose bud and anneal the tube just prior to bending in a warm to the touch feeling.

ZTFab

March 28th, 2005, 20:33

Yeah what ZT said...

It also helps if you use a rose bud and anneal the tube just prior to bending in a warm to the touch feeling.

I guess I could've tried annealing the tube like you said.....stupid, stupid, stupid.... :confused:

FlyHiFlyLo7

March 28th, 2005, 20:46

I guess I could've tried annealing the tube like you said.....stupid, stupid, stupid.... :confused:

I only know this because me and my buddy built an all aluminum sandrail 10 years ago and after we waisted 40 feet of tube we finally called the old man and he set us strait.

partybarge_pilot

March 29th, 2005, 00:08

???

I have bent plenty of 6061-t6 1.5X.120 in my bender. No problems at all other than keeping the sliding die clean and well greased.. No annealing either.

Dave_G

March 29th, 2005, 08:37

It also helps if you use a rose bud and anneal the tube just prior to bending in a warm to the touch feeling.

If you don't have a temp stick use a magic marker and mark all over the area of the tube that you want to anneal. When the marker burns off you've reached over 550f and that should do it.

There used to be a shop in Azusa that specialized in tube bending for industrial applications but I haven't used them in years. Azusa Pipe and Tube Service as I recall was the name. I had them bend some 3" .250 wall 321 stainless steel that had to roll a 2.5" ball through it at 90 degrees and they bent it without changing the honed inside diameter.

outtacontrazy

March 29th, 2005, 09:04

you can always pie cut pieces out out to make a bend and tig weld it back together, you gotta remember to use silicon tubing in a few spots to relieve tension on the pipe along the way

ZTFab

March 29th, 2005, 09:32

If you don't have a temp stick use a magic marker and mark all over the area of the tube that you want to anneal. When the marker burns off you've reached over 550f and that should do it.

There used to be a shop in Azusa that specialized in tube bending for industrial applications but I haven't used them in years. Azusa Pipe and Tube Service as I recall was the name. I had them bend some 3" .250 wall 321 stainless steel that had to roll a 2.5" ball through it at 90 degrees and they bent it without changing the honed inside diameter.

Thanks for the trick Dave....I too have used Azusa tube bending....they are still around and do great work....

Partybarge....I lubed the crap out of the dies and out of 4 bends, 2 broke completely in the bender and the other 2 were so badly stress cracked that I was able to pull them apart by hand.....I was wondering, are you sure you had T-6 finish and not "0" or T-4, maybe? And what radius is your 1.5" die?

FABRICATOR

March 29th, 2005, 10:20

It's also very common to buy bends and weld the pieces together.

ZTFab

March 29th, 2005, 10:27

It's also very common to buy bends and weld the pieces together.

Another good suggestion Chuck....I fabricate custom exhaust systems in the same fashion.....just takes a long time.... :eek:

hoeker

March 29th, 2005, 12:27

i just bought tubing and bends from C&R racing to hard plumb my truck. they also built me a beautiful custom radiatior and a preasurized cooling system to make it as efficient as possible. C&R is stepping up in the off road world so take some time to check out what they have to offer. besides advertising on the web they are supporting dusty times and dirt sports, check it out!

ntsqd

March 29th, 2005, 19:13

If you don't have a temp stick use a magic marker and mark all over the area of the tube that you want to anneal. When the marker burns off you've reached over 550f and that should do it.

I use the Acetylene soot trick. A bit hotter than the magic marker temp though. Same thing, the soot won't burn off until the metal is at temp.

JGunn

March 29th, 2005, 19:15

OK, I have never done it but I was told that to bend Aluminum; the best way is to cool it with dry-ice. Has anyone done this or have heard about this (for aluminum rims)?

ZTFab

March 29th, 2005, 19:46

OK, I have never done it but I was told that to bend Aluminum; the best way is to cool it with dry-ice. Has anyone done this or have heard about this (for aluminum rims)?

That's a new one to me....I'd be really interested to hear how they do it.....maybe has something to do with the fact that metal will contract more than it will expand when heated or welded??? :confused:

partybarge_pilot

March 29th, 2005, 20:44

Die radious is 5" on centerline. I lied, the tubing was .188 wall 6061-T6. It still has the markings on a piece of scrap I have.

1469

March 29th, 2005, 23:40

cutting pieces and welding them back together usually isnt the strongest and welds leak. been there.

desertracer

March 29th, 2005, 23:51

I talked to sand cars unlimited today and they suggested buying pre-bent sections and welding them together, like some of you have mentioned. I am going to check with a place in Long Beach which specializes in bending. The annealing process seems quite do able as well. Thanks for all the help and info so far...

Jkrell

March 30th, 2005, 01:53

All the shops I have been around have welded pre-bent pieces together like previosly stated.
A few tips to help out...
- when you are welding them overlap your stopping point by one or two beads with your new start point to help avoid leaks
-make sure the metal is super clean (inside and out) before you weld it
-use a hose clamp with 3 or 4 holes drilled around it to clamp two splices together while you fit things up - then tack weld through the holes.

jk

FABRICATOR

March 30th, 2005, 09:03

cutting pieces and welding them back together usually isnt the strongest and welds leak. been there.

Wow! That's not quite what I was talking about. It would be more like one weld instead of a dozen or so. That piece certainly took more time to make than finding the right bend ready made. The piece together (minimum in number) method can be found from tractors to Formula 1. You will also need some kind of bead to keep the hose from sliding off. In small numbers it is common to use a welded bead. If you are doing more than a few you will need one of the little bead rollers.

ZTFab

March 30th, 2005, 09:28

Wow! That's not quite what I was talking about. It would be more like one weld instead of a dozen or so. That piece certainly took more time to make than finding the right bend ready made. The piece together (minimum in number) method can be found from tractors to Formula 1. You will also need some kind of bead to keep the hose from sliding off. In small numbers it is common to use a welded bead. If you are doing more than a few you will need one of the little bead rollers.

Exactly my thoughts....that one tube hase more welds on it than I would consider on a whole system.... :eek:

That hose clamp trick sounds like it might work...I'll have to try it.....

5racer

March 30th, 2005, 13:25

i duno i think i would stick to the silacon hose my self seems like this has been working for you so why change it

JGunn

March 30th, 2005, 13:31

If you have tried to bend with no luck, give the dry-ice method a shot. Just purchase $ 5 to $ 10 of dry-ice, use a cardboard box with the dry-ice in it. Then mark your bend and cool that section before you bend. Good luck!

ACID_RAIN28

March 30th, 2005, 19:41

If you think about it, You could have been done with it already if you use pre bent sections like header work and If you do eventually make a water line system from more than one piece with welded sections be sure to pressure test the system before installing it, just make a plug for one end and a plug with a schrader(sp) valve in the other charge it with some air pressure and spray windex all over the joint to see any leaks.

ntsqd

March 31st, 2005, 08:30

FlyHiFlyLo7

March 31st, 2005, 09:03

Bend the tube already!

ZTFab

March 31st, 2005, 09:41

The hose clamp trick works well. I've used it for all sorts of butt weled tube projects. Consider the clamps to be consumable though, or I'm too wobbly with the torch.....

I've done a couple water systems using pre-bent tubes. Never had a problem with leaking. The first one I made in '98 and it's still running. Car sees nothing but distilled water with some Water Wetter in it's coolant system.

Thom, 3 pots of coffee before tig welding probably isn't the best idea... :p

...and I swear by Water Wetter....I use it in all of my cooling systems....the dragster I finished two weeks ago has a 1000hp BB Chevy and a tiny 17"x21" single 1" core radiator and with 1 bottle of Water Wetter...it never gets above 190*

ntsqd

March 31st, 2005, 21:42

NOW you tell me! yeesh.....
:D

Actually, I think it's due to a pinched nerve from running a m/c into the side of a Blazer at 60 MPH about 15 years ago.

ZTFab

March 31st, 2005, 22:05

NOW you tell me! yeesh.....
:D

Actually, I think it's due to a pinched nerve from running a m/c into the side of a Blazer at 60 MPH about 15 years ago.

That'll do it too.... :eek:

Jkrell

April 1st, 2005, 23:41

NOW you tell me! yeesh.....
:D

Actually, I think it's due to a pinched nerve from running a m/c into the side of a Blazer at 60 MPH about 15 years ago.

wow, lucky you can still weld at all....yeah and like thom said consider the hose clamps consumable...ive seen some guys make them last for a long while but i can never get more then 10 fits or so out of each - though i haven't plumbed a car yet with my new inverter tig - probably make em last longer with the sharp point (even with a shaky hand :) ).

jk

ZTFab

April 2nd, 2005, 10:33

wow, lucky you can still weld at all....yeah and like thom said consider the hose clamps consumable...ive seen some guys make them last for a long while but i can never get more then 10 fits or so out of each - though i haven't plumbed a car yet with my new inverter tig - probably make em last longer with the sharp point (even with a shaky hand :) ).

jk

Let me know how that inverter works....I've always wanted to try one.... :)

NicksTrix

April 2nd, 2005, 16:41

Reid Washbon in newport (949/548-9783) sells all sort of alum bends to use for a system. all very nicely mandrel bent in house. great people to deal with.
hth
nick

Jkrell

April 2nd, 2005, 20:14

the new inverter tig has been great so far - Thermal Arc Pro Wave 185 - 1750 bucks delivered. Kinda the off brand but with good reviews and about a 1000 bucks cheaper than the small miller/lincoln inverters. i havent used it on aluminum yet but i doubt I will be dissapointed, i havent been thus far. Still needs a water cooler but the arc is smooth and it runs perfect...my shop/garage is in pomona if you ever want to try it out.

jk

FABRICATOR

April 2nd, 2005, 20:55

Still needs a water cooler...
Maybe not. These are way more compact than the old air cooled torches. Anyone tried one yet? The latest from Weldcraft.http://www.arc-zone.com/catalog/web_store.cgi?page=featured_product.html

ntsqd

April 3rd, 2005, 12:23

At school we had OLD Miller power supplys (Round tops) & one with an air cooler torch on it. At 175 amps the torch had a duty cycle of about 40% I'm also curious is anyone has tried one these new torches and what their duty cycle is.

Inverter Anecdote: I used to have a connection w/ Jeff Johnson of Billet Fab in Simi. He told me that switching to the then brand new inverter type power supplies cut his power bill by 1/3

ZTFab

April 3rd, 2005, 13:07

Jkrell

April 3rd, 2005, 14:36

Maybe not. These are way more compact than the old air cooled torches. Anyone tried one yet? The latest from Weldcraft.http://www.arc-zone.com/catalog/web_store.cgi?page=featured_product.html

ya know the problem for me isn't that it heats up too much (though it does get hot after a while)...the problem is that a #9 air cooled torch head (the small one) is only rated around 120 amps so have the larger #17 head that is pretty clunky and hard to get into tight spots.

1469

April 3rd, 2005, 23:36

Wow! That's not quite what I was talking about. It would be more like one weld instead of a dozen or so. That piece certainly took more time to make than finding the right bend ready made. The piece together (minimum in number) method can be found from tractors to Formula 1. You will also need some kind of bead to keep the hose from sliding off. In small numbers it is common to use a welded bead. If you are doing more than a few you will need one of the little bead rollers.

well actually finding the bend and completing that piece took under an hour to fully make. the bend taking 1/5 of the time.