Chevy s10/v6 for class 7200?

[scottm]

I am planning to build a 94 s10 extended cab up for BITD/Score/whiplash unlimited mini truck racing. I am working with Steve Arlia of Arlia Precision fab in Phoenix to design the cage and suspension. I was planning to use a 4.3 v6, until I put in about 10 hours of internet searching for info. As an old chevy guy, I am a bit shocked and disappointed to learn how "challenging" it will be to make a decent 4.3 race engine. From what I can gather, a better combo might be an 80-84 odd fire 229 short block with 95-up vortex heads and an edelbrock 2114 manifold, here:

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/index.html

Another option is a buick 231 v6, but I am not sure if it is legal. Of course another option (and the one I hear the most) is to forget about a Chevy class 7 and build a class 8/v8 "real" truck. I just want to explore the v6 possibilities a little more first.

Does anyone have any info or a link to a chevy 90° v6 guru?

[DEZFAN]

Call this guy Oscar 562-3187138 he has the tools to reprogram the vortecs.
He can get 260 Hp/260 TQ out of a stock 4.3.

[scottm]

Thanks Dezfan!
Does anyone know if the buick 231 would be legal for a chevy in class 7 open?

[billymanfroy]

Thanks Dezfan!
Does anyone know if the buick 231 would be legal for a chevy in class 7 open?

No, it wouldn't be. You might be able to get away with it, but you'd have to hope nobody (like me) could recognize a 3.8L. The terrible part is everyone would let you run it for years (and take your purse money) until you beat them, and then they'd nick you after the race. Unfortunate but true. lol

Your absolute best bet is to buy an old NASCAR Busch 4.3L-based race engine. S&S (the old lil Mac) ran one as I recall. There has to be literally hundreds of them out there. I had some trouble finding a Ford, but Chevys should be dime-a-dozen. Never looked before, but I'd start on eBay, ARCA's site, racing parts sites, etc. You could also try Leonard Vahsholtz in CO and see if he has any suggestions. He's basically the NASCAR Ford V6 guru and might have some leads on Chevys. BTW, we actually have less money in our engine than many guys running ~400 hp in a 4.0L (which is plenty, really). I hear stock Chevy V6s are supposedly easier to build up than Fords. Good luck!

Billy

[scottm]

Thanks Billy. Is a nascar xyz block going to be legal? The BIDT 7200 rules state "any other engine of the same manufacturer may be used providing it has mfr's part number listed on the block and heads". What does Score say?

Now I'm starting to think I want a 90-93 truck short block (prior to the counterbalancer years), rather than an old 229, with 95-up vortex heads. Does anyone know what oiling/valvetrain/balancing problems that will have?

For an intake, the Edelbrock 2114 works with a 500 cfm 4 bbl carb. What does everyone prefer, tbi or carberated?

[billymanfroy]

The NASCAR blocks are legal, because they have to be OEM parts to be NASCAR legal. ;-) They are VERY tightly-regulated on stuff like that. As a matter of fact, the hamburger dry sump pans and Weaver bros. oil pumps also have Ford part #s. Pretty sure they're legal in SCORE as well.

TBI is now legal in BITD, which is what we're going to since we get 2.1 mpg now with a stock 650cfm Holley HP. Don't know about SCORE, but it's probably right around the corner if not already legal.

[TRichards]

I belive the Wehrychs (Class 1) had 1 or 2 V6 chevy motors for sale for a reasonable amount. They upgraded to LS1 power. Check Dusty Times classified or call Stewarts Raceworks.

[stuETM]

Another great person to talk to would be Eric Tadeja from ET motorsports, I believe he has a similar set up of what you are looking for already. Email- erictadeja@sbcglobal.net

[scottm]

Thanks everyone. I have been looking for a week straight, and found some stuff that gives me hope for the 4.3. Hot Rod mag did a 4.3 buildup in the Aug 02 issue, here:

http://hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/113_0208_v6/index.html

They got 301 hp with lame 80's heads and mild off the shelf parts. They didn't even realize vortec 95+ heads will fit with a big gain in flow. I also found some great info on www.engine-builder.com in the back issues section. An article called Rebuilding the new Chevy 262 V6 details all the changes in parts over the years, and will help anyone digging through the wrecking yards like myself.

[Ryan_P]

Another great person to talk to would be Eric Tadeja from ET motorsports, I believe he has a similar set up of what you are looking for already. Email- erictadeja@sbcglobal.net

Yes he does, he has a carbed. 4.3L in the 7s(x) that be bought from the Herders is pushes out some mean hp and is very reliable. He's a really good guy and fun to talk to, I bought parker pumper off him. E-mail him, I have his number but I don't know if he would want me giving it out?

-Ryan

[GFC]

http://www.s-series.org/htm/tech/GMPerfParts/GMPerfParts.htm

not sure if this will be of any help to you.

[scottm]

Thanks GFC. I was happy to find another chevy S vehicle forum there at that site. I just recieved the 2005 chevy performance parts guide and power catalog. The power catalog (pn 24502488) is awesome info for racing all the chevy v6/v8 engines.

[phorensic]

Call this guy Oscar 562-3187138 he has the tools to reprogram the vortecs.
He can get 260 Hp/260 TQ out of a stock 4.3.

I keep wondering what the heck I want to put in my truck once the 3.0 I have now blows a headgasket. If this is true, then the 4.3 swap just got bumped up on my list of possible swaps. Do you know if those numbers are for stock manifolds?? I'm sure 260/260 would be possible with a nice intake and exhaust system, but it's hard for me to believe you could get those numbers on a totally stock 4.3. I can't believe the ECU is so conservative on that motor, if you can get freakin 260/260 out of it without changing internals/heads.

[scottm]

Its probably with headers and a good air intake system, at least.

[DMSCHASE]

A good engine guy should be able to get 500hp out of a 4.3L. Just look at "Little Mac" that truck had horsepower.

James

[grantdcol]

Something to always keep in mind is the inverse relationship between reliability and horsepower. Yes, 3,000 HP can be had from a big block, but only for about 5 seconds!

Phorensic - an engine swap to a different manufacturer is a lot bigger deal than changing a head gasket!

-Colin

[DMSCHASE]

I understand what you are saying, but you can make a reliable 500hp 4.3L. The only problem with building a 500hp motor is it is going to cost some serious coin.

James

[Josh_K]

Talk is cheap and easy!

Get it 500hp form a 4.3 is the same as getting 663 hp form a 350ci.

It can be done, but the engine is done in about 500 miles of hard running. Further more the only way I know of getting that much power in a usable rpm is to increase the manifold PSI. I think a low compression, highly reliable, 4.3 that could make 500hp at about 5k rpm is a pipe dream!

Josh

[scottm]

Yeah, it would take nascar level hardware, spinning about 7,000 to make that much power per inch. It would be lucky to last 500 miles running flat out, but it might go a whole season of racing.

I think 275-300 relible hp with production parts will be reasonable, from what I have read in the last week. That will move an s-10 pretty well. I'm hoping to get started on my project within a few weeks.

[Josh_K]

I agree.

[phorensic]

Something to always keep in mind is the inverse relationship between reliability and horsepower. Yes, 3,000 HP can be had from a big block, but only for about 5 seconds!

Phorensic - an engine swap to a different manufacturer is a lot bigger deal than changing a head gasket!

-Colin

You obviously haven't worked on a 3.0! It's a major undertaking to change the headgasket and requires special service tools. 185ft.lbs. of torque isn't pushing my 3200lb truck well either. Did some research lately and it's going to be easier to swap in a v8 than a 4.3. Broke the motor mount prerunning the MORE Barstow course so now that motor swap is looking more attractive.

[ALEX]

why don't you just swap in a 3.4? you can use the same trans, and it almost plugs in!

[phorensic]

Because the 3.4 has no aftermarket to make big power. The only aftermarket is the TRD supercharger and I don't feel like losing $2K for marginal power gains. The SBC is so universally accepted that it's easy to get a wide range of power levels out of it without spending extravagent amounts of money. Hell, just stock a SBC will put out TWICE the power of my 3.0. Meaning I can pick up a junkyard special and put custom headers on it to fit my engine bay and leave it STOCK while still getting twice the power.

[scottm]

phorensic, I personally think everything that moves should get a sbc in it. Is your truck 2wd or 4wd? Advance adapters probably has an adapter plate to the trans. How long the trans will last is another issue.

[phorensic]

Yes, Advance Adaptors makes a bellhousing that mates any SBC to my R150F tranny (v6, 4wd). How long the tranny lasts is a good question. My tranny is the basis of the supra tranny, and I know those things are good for at least 500rwhp. If I baby it, I expect to get at least a year of use out of it. At which time I should have enough money to swap in an NV4500 and get the adaptor to bolt my transfer case back in. I think I will break my stock 8" before the tranny however.

[grantdcol]

Talk is cheap, I'll be the first to applaud you when it's DONE.

[phorensic]

When you make less than $20K a year nothing ever really gets DONE. :(

[subrunner]

You won't baby it for very long with a sbc in there.:D