Bilstein's new Blackhawk shocks

[jcorsico]

Does anyone have any experiance with these new shocks? I'm curious to hear how they shape up against the Kings, which seem to generally be the shock of choice for new TT's.

Check them out at: http://www.bilstein.com/html/applications/9300/index.htm

I also know that the most recent issue of Dirt Sports did a whole write-up on them.

[Ryan_P]

A lot of TT's and protrucks are having them made and switching over to the new bypass shock, the Blackhawk. There is a couple trucks running them now, like the Tundra I posted below. The shock on the front end, coil over AND bypass, are mounted off the upper arm as shown in the last picture.

-Ryan

http://pix.race-dezert.com/albums/2005_score_laughlin_class8/normal_IMG_2194.JPG
http://pix.race-dezert.com/albums/2005_score_laughlin_class8/normal_IMG_2293.JPG
http://pix.race-dezert.com/albums/2004_offrad-expo/normal_IMG_2420.JPG
http://pix.race-dezert.com/albums/2004_offrad-expo/normal_IMG_2424.JPG
http://pix.race-dezert.com/albums/2004_offrad-expo/normal_IMG_2422.JPG

[JrSyko]

A lot of TT's and protrucks are having them made and switching over to the new bypass shock, the Blackhawk.

Is Ivan going to allow only some of the PT's to run them or are they all gonna have to run them? Might be an un-fair advantage if only some of them run them.

Also, wouldn't the Bilstein coilover be to small for the TT's?

[John_Bitting]

We have not had a chance to get the blackhawks dialed in on the Tundra. Hopefully before the 500 with working with Bilstien and Mike from Super Shocks Cory and Ted will be able to run that Tundra to its potential. It needs test time. Mike from SS did not have any valving to tune then at Laughlin. I highly doubt teams will be able to run them on protrucks. That will be interesting though, supposed to be a level playing field class and with 4 alone in the back and two up front thats a $13k upgrade just on bypasses and a little overkill to have dual bypasses that big on each corner. We shall see.

[Ryan_P]

Yeah, thats just what a couple PT guys were talking about it Laughlin. We shall see how that goes, and it would be an unfair advantage if they could run either or.

-Ryan

[racer951]

I have heard from a team that runs them that the real advantage is the lack of shock fade. At Laughlin that wouldnt matter but it would be a big help 500 miles into the Baja 1000.

John - You said the valving was way off on that 8 truck. I saw the rear end slapping through super small stuff the first day and was wondering what was going on as it was way behind. Way too light?

[John_Bitting]

There was no test time on the 8 truck going into laughlin so the valving they came with is what was run on Saturday which was way too soft, On Sunday it was better. The truck was taken to the 1000 untested and lost a ring and pinion about 300 miles into the race, it went back to the shop and then went to Laughlin, The shocks should be dialed by the next race. The truck should be really fast once dialed.

[sandking]

Heard they cost $2500.00 each??

[Ryan_P]

Heard they cost $2500.00 each??

Actually, $2200 is the magical number.

John, I was told from numerous people that the only people that can valve and reseal a Blackhawk is Bilstein themselves. That the shocks are very hard to work with, that most guys can't valve them. Is this true? The reason I am asking is because some people are steering away from them because of this reason, that you have to send them in to Bilstein to have them worked on everytime you wanna valve the shock. Thanks for any help/info.

-Ryan

[Eric_M]

Actually, $2200 is the magical number.

John, I was told from numerous people that the only people that can valve and reseal a Blackhawk is Bilstein themselves. That the shocks are very hard to work with, that most guys can't valve them. Is this true? The reason I am asking is because some people are steering away from them because of this reason, that you have to send them in to Bilstein to have them worked on everytime you wanna valve the shock. Thanks for any help/info.

-Ryan

dood.. you asked the same question on dezertrangers.com a few days ago, and mike answered your question... heres his responce to your question.. "i dont know where the rumor of having to take them to bilstein to get them serviced came from, possibly because they're so new, but they are extremely easy to work on being that their construction is simple." << copied and pasted.

[McClintock]

There is nothing wrong in getting a second opinion, there are more knowledgable people on this site the DR.

[motoxscott]

Thought I would put some issues to rest here since I deal with Bilstein daily ......

1) They dont have tamper proof fittings ... anyone can and will be able to take them apart and tune them. You do NOT need to only have a Bilstein tech rebuild/tune your shocks. As time goes on more and more people will be more familiar with them.

2) Blackhawk shocks are very easy to work with and very user friendly to those who understand shocks. They have a lot of new technology in them but dont forget we're still dealing with a piston and valve shim design. Bilstein will have a huge selection of valve shims for anyone to buy just like any other shock company out there.

3) Bilstein plans on having an interactive online shock tuning and technical manual for everyone to use to better optimize your blackhawks. No shock out of the box is perfect, every single one needs to be tuned for the specific application and driving style.

4) Bilstein is and will continue to work with teams and shops to further develop the line.

Hope that helps a little ......

- Scott @ Camburg Engineering

[ntsqd]

I saw a couple things I didn't like on them at Expo. Will be interesting to see if those prove important ot not.

[mattb]

What were the issues that you had with them? I'm interested to hear what you didn't like. I personally haven't seen them up close.

[FlyHiFlyLo7]

These shocks are badass. Being an Engineer by trade (you get no praise from JIM on that Yes you Jim!) they seem to offer many advancements. I just think the extruded design is very ingenious! Basically they use the integration of the bypass tube as a heat sink and gusseting. The cost is understandable since they have to amortize the extrusion tooling. After they sell enough the tooling will be amortized and will actually end up being cheaper to produce due to there being no welded parts at all. I think the 3.0" size is perfect too. That size should cover everything. Especially with the 4.5" reservoir! $2200.00 is very reasonable! Great Job Bilstien!

Only one concern; I have seen many bypass shocks take a heavy ding or two. I wonder how the body and bypass veins will hold up under a heavy impact? They are sure to crack rather than bend or dent rendering them useless. A little protective shielding from rocks would be wise If they are ever mounted in a vulnerable location IMO.

2200.00 + 700.00 for a coil over= 2900.00 or 3000.00 for a 4" RG shock? It's a toss up.

[MikeLeung]

One possiable problem I foresee is the Alum. body. yes it does lighten the weight and cools faster. The problem I see is if any dirt gets past the seal and into the shock...the dirt will scratch the interior and cause the seals to fail.

[ChuckH]

FlyHiFlyLo7
Extruded aluminum is no more prone to cracking on impact that non extruded aluminum, it will bend is all, motorcycle rims are extruded, bicycle rims are extruded, butted aluminum bicycle frame tubes are extruded, all of them bend under impact just like steel does, a aluminum tube with the same strength as steal will dent with a little less force though.


MikeLeung
Dirt doesn't get into shocks/MX forks easily, i haven't ever seen it, you would see oil coming out if dirt could get in, MX bikes are rode in mud all the time with aluminum fork body's ( some have cartridges,( hi tech stuff )

[FlyHiFlyLo7]

FlyHiFlyLo7
Extruded aluminum is no more prone to cracking on impact that non extruded aluminum, it will bend is all, motorcycle rims are extruded, bicycle rims are extruded, butted aluminum bicycle frame tubes are extruded, all of them bend under impact just like steel does, a aluminum tube with the same strength as steal will dent with a little less force though.


MikeLeung
Dirt doesn't get into shocks/MX forks easily, i haven't ever seen it, you would see oil coming out if dirt could get in, MX bikes are rode in mud all the time with aluminum fork body's ( some have cartridges,( hi tech stuff )


Chuck, I was comparing to steel. Your analogy of comparing the durability of rims is valid and a good one but with studies in FEA I have noticed that structures like rims have a large surface to dissipate energy and are ARC shapes. A 12" rock impacting a 20" bike rim at 30MPH would be much different that a 12" rock hitting one of those bypass veins at 30MPH.

Also extruded construction was/is not the issue. All aluminum plate and tube is extruded for the most part.

As far as the internal scratches they are hard anodized and should not wear any worse than a steel counter part. Regular, clean, white glove Prep and service will extend the life of any race shock

I wonder how the weight comparison is. I bet there could be several pounds of savings per shock.

From what I have seen, I would defiantly take a set of these over a set of KINGs , Fox or SAW in a heartbeat. I would shield them too.

[ChuckH]

Some rims also have tubes built into them and i wouldn't call a bicycle rim wide either ;) :D , a better example that i gave would be tubing thats the same shape as the shock, round, MTB frames will dent if there steel or aluminum ( same strength tubes overall )

But i digress, my point was that while denting a little easier than steal they wont crack on impact easily and leak.

The Blackhawk is a nice shock no doubt, the only real advantage is that they claim to run cooler, by how much is debatable ( might not run cooler than some designs, think 4 inch ).. a 4 inch shock due to its sheer oil volume and surface area should be able run as cool or maybe cooler given the same work load, the Blackhawk is just a normal ole bypass shock made with aluminnum, as for cost to make them, dies do cost extra but they also don't have to weld on the bypass tubes that takes man hours and has its own cost, the extra machining shouldn't be much of a factor since machining is used in making steel bypass shocks also.

Extrusion dies also have problems with wear, example a bike rim that at the beginning of a production run that weighs 380 grams can weigh 430 grams at the end of the die life ( it can be used longer but it getting way out of spec ) they will be machining the bore so thats not to big of a problem, after a while the shock body will weigh more and be stronger and have more dent resistance, or in enginerrrrerin speak it wont crack as easy :D ( discalimer crack means dent or bend :p )

[FlyHiFlyLo7]

Good point on the die ID growing over life. How much extra cooling effect do you think the 4.50 reservoir will have?

[ChuckH]

There are lots of variables, shock size, reservoir size, how many lines are running to the reservoir ( like in the truggy) if your running a solid piston, or a piston thats setup with a high rate spring stack, and even the color of the shock, black radiates much more heat than most colors so a black shock would run cooler.

[FlyHiFlyLo7]

There are lots of variables, shock size, reservoir size, how many lines are running to the reservoir ( like in the truggy) if your running a solid piston, or a piston thats setup with a high rate spring stack, and even the color of the shock, black radiates much more heat than most colors so a black shock would run cooler.


Damn! so I guess I should forego the Hot Pink Rough Country gas shocks.

[DG_BTI]

[QUOTE=GlamisMXRider04]A lot of TT's and protrucks are having them made and switching over to the new bypass shock, the Blackhawk.

Who is switching and how many is alot of teams. Why would any team switch to a product that has no history.

[mattb]

Why would any team switch to a product that has no history.[/QUOTE]

Look at the teams that are jumping ship from BFG. There is always a market for new companies. As long as they can sell the concept.
Would you have expected to see a "Toyo Tires" TT this time last year? You never know what motivates people.

[JrSyko]

You never know what motivates people.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Why would any team switch to a product that has no history.

That is a very negative attitude. Every company had to get their start somewhere and they were able to do this by people taking a risk and buying their products, usually because their product was a step forward technologically. Think about it, if everyone had that attitude, we'd still be stuck in the dark ages!

[jeff]

Question: Why would any team switch to a product that has no history.

Answer: The switch would occur because the individual (or team) feels the new product offers a benefit or benefits that make it better than what is currently offered.

Aloha

[FlyHiFlyLo7]

As for no history? Bilstein has been shocking the desert far longer than KING, KUSTER, FOX and Sway a Way combined. Plus Free stuff allways is worth a try.

[tedmales]

As for no history? Bilstein has been shocking the desert far longer than KING, KUSTER, FOX and Sway a Way combined. Plus Free stuff allways is worth a try.


thats a "negative"

[FlyHiFlyLo7]

thats a "negative"


OK that was a stretch LOL.... But check this high tech machine from 1974 LOL

[DG_BTI]

you guys are nuts, I'm simply stating that the "Blackhawk" has no history. Please name one single TT team that is switching. Lets look at say, Mark Post. He has had his truck for a few years now, thousands of miles in testing and racing. Why would he start over with a completly "new" shock. Sorry, but it's not going to happen. Yes, maybe a "new" truck built around the "Blackhawk", but trust me, nobody is swithing over. Being negitive and being realistic are two different things, I accept your apology.

[ntsqd]

the extra machining shouldn't be much of a factor since machining is used in making steel bypass shocks also.

Except for the $10k cost per each of the 90* machine tool head(s). Remember that they have to bore the holes thru the side of the body from the inside, not the outside like with a welded body.

The biggest thing I didn't like about it is the sharp corners in all of those drilled intersections. I suspect that turbulence and cavitation are going to be more of an issue than in the welded body (which still doesn't have great flow dynamics). Look for the high end teams to have their B/H's ExtrudeHoned in the by-pass tubes.

[ChuckH]

Please name one single TT team that is switching. Lets look at say, Mark Post.

ok

http://pix.race-dezert.com/albums/2005_bitd_parker_425_contingency/IMG_4505.JPG

[ChuckH]

The biggest thing I didn't like about it is the sharp corners in all of those drilled intersections. I suspect that turbulence and cavitation are going to be more of an issue than in the welded body (which still doesn't have great flow dynamics). Look for the high end teams to have their B/H's ExtrudeHoned in the by-pass tubes.

Plus the reservoir is mounted off the top of the shock which could cause cavitation on compression where pressure is the highest, most shocks have them mounted off the bottom for that reason. ( that could be a option ? )

[ChuckH]

Except for the $10k cost per each of the 90* machine tool head(s). Remember that they have to bore the holes thru the side of the body from the inside, not the outside like with a welded body.

The bypass tubes don't look like their part of the shock body extrusion, different color and you can see a edge to them next to the body, no need for that $10k tool, i bet their put on with a high tech glue.


http://www.bilstein.com/images/applications/9300_blackhawk/9300_big.jpg

[John_Bitting]

1 peice, no glue.http://pix.race-dezert.com/albums/2004_offrad-expo/IMG_2458.JPG

[ChuckH]

Thanks for the info and the pic, looks like it on the pic i posted, hmmm, prototype !! or freaky photo effect.!!

[singlehanded]

For what reason did they put the resevoir on top compared to the bottom?

[FlyHiFlyLo7]

Those things are Soooo Bitchen! I don't care! The extrude hone idea is a good one! If it is doable. maybe drill bypass holes, then extrude hone, then final bore.

As for the angle drill being 10K. I bet they have someone with a makita and a long drill bit at an angle. Jus Kidd'n LOL

The more I see those the more I want a set!

[Bomber52]

Plus the reservoir is mounted off the top of the shock which could cause cavitation on compression where pressure is the highest, most shocks have them mounted off the bottom for that reason. ( that could be a option ? )

The fact that they are running an anti cavitation valve enables them to run the remote out of the top. This also allows them to run lower gas pressure.

Cheers

Glenn

[ChuckH]

"anti cavitation valve" ...good one.

No such thing (except for marketing people) you might design a piston that is a little less likely to cavatate ( a big maybe) but not by much, its still using a washer stack with oil going through holes, its a nice shock and i would use it, but the only new thing tech wise that really matters is the shock body, others have already used over size reservoirs.

Running lower gas pressure is because of lower temps and a over sized reservoir, the cooler the oil the less likely it is to cavatate

[ntsqd]

The bypass tubes don't look like their part of the shock body extrusion, different color and you can see a edge to them next to the body, no need for that $10k tool, i bet their put on with a high tech glue.

When I first saw them in the hotel lobby at the Off Road Expo that is the first thing I looked for. Did not appear to be the case. The guy holding it insisted (when he wasn't using it as a 'ray gun') that is was all one piece.

[jeff]

I've seen these in person a few times I can find no visible seam. Check out the latest Dirt Sports magazine, the one with the feature article on the new Blackhawk... I can't see any seams in those pictures either. The end cap with the adjuster is bolted on but that's not part of the discussion.

Aloha

[John_Bitting]

I can takes pics of them tonight and you can try and find seams. I am around them every Tuesday and Thursday night working on the Tundra I help out on. The only problem I can find with them is they are not FOX's.

[ChuckH]

The photo you posted in this thread clearly shows their one piece

You could take it apart and take lots of pics of the inside parts though ;) :p :D no ??? darn it.

some pics of the yota project would suffice if your in the mood

[John_Bitting]

I am gonna skunk the yota because the work that Jeff Lewis did on the Kudela designed chassis is unreal.

[mattb]

Is that Jeff Lewis, from the MacPhearson truck days? I was wondering where he was.

[JrSyko]

The only problem I can find with them is they are not FOX's.

Ha Ha!! Ain't that the truth!!

Juan, are you helping out that team?

[John_Bitting]

I have been for years, when they raced the toyota 7s, then the old MacPherson S-10 and throughout that build up of the new truck. Its gets me away every Tuesday and Thursday night to hang with the guys and wrench. Its the perfect time away.

[JrSyko]

Its the perfect time away

Amen

Is there any particular reason that truck has a bar running right through the cab, in between the driver and co-dawg? Always thought that was kinda weird, but may serve a purpose.

[jcorsico]

I am gonna skunk the yota because the work that Jeff Lewis did on the Kudela designed chassis is unreal.
Kudela designed the chasis on that Toyota? I was wondering what happened to him as well.

[retroblazer]

I know this is a year old thread, but I'm wondering if the collective body of info on these shocks has changed much. I'm looking to swap out a pair of 14" smooth body 9100's for one Blackhawk on my Class 3 Blazer. Any thoughts?

[motoxscott]

We'll have some more insight on these soon as we're converting all our shocks on our race truck to Bilsteins and will be running the Blackhawks on the rear. We've done some extensive testing with our current setup so we're interested on how these will compare. We're looking forward to testing them very soon since they are a work of art on the outside, we'll see how the insides work.

- Scott @ Camburg Engineering

[J.JOHNSON]

I weighed them to see if they are lighter like their advertisment says. They are 10 lbs heavier than their king counterpart. That is a big difference and I would say that is false advertising.

[Brian_Goleta]

I weighed them to see if they are lighter like their advertisment says. They are 10 lbs heavier than their king counterpart. That is a big difference and I would say that is false advertising.

Interesting.

Were they the same length?

[J.JOHNSON]

The Same Travel And Dia.

[SLR]

The shock with res weight and oil???? RTR???

[J.JOHNSON]

RTR!!! I am not pushing any brand. We had the chance to compare them so we did. Next quesrion is probably w/ or w/o mis alignments? lol!!

[Ramsey_ElWardani]

I weighed them to see if they are lighter like their advertisment says. They are 10 lbs heavier than their king counterpart. That is a big difference and I would say that is false advertising.I'm curious, what advertising are you referring to specifically?

[Will_Higman]

Hold up a second while I get my Popcorn out of the microwave!
>
>
>

OK go!

Will Higman

[racer951]

I'm curious, what advertising are you referring to specifically?

"Stonger and 10%-25% lighter than similar welded steel bypass shock bodies without the distortion from welding"

It's in their press releases and on their site http://www.bilstein.com/offroad.php#9300

[STUARTCHASE]

Does anyone have any experiance with these new shocks? I'm curious to hear how they shape up against the Kings, which seem to generally be the shock of choice for new TT's.

Check them out at: http://www.bilstein.com/html/applications/9300/index.htm

I also know that the most recent issue of Dirt Sports did a whole write-up on them.

I will be using this shocks on a new Penhal class 1 car. I have had many discussions with shane, their off road rep plus one of their engineers. I have seen the display model apart and is basically the same as Fox or King with the exception of the attached or molded bypass tube.
Their adjustment on the bypass is far superior, no jam nut and allen, it is a roller switch with detent springs, quicker and more specific. The body is aluminum, passes heat at a much faster rate and runs low gas pressure, 50 lbs as opposed to 100 plus, makes initial travel alot less harse. There is valving on the piston in the res, a new feature used in conjunction with the low pressure.
I did have some questions and concerns about hose sizes from the shock to the can, they are smaller than others, they were very receptive to modifications that we felt were more conforming.
They have sent a set to Penhal for mock up and making some adjustments as a result of this. They are more than the others but have better features, worth it, don't know, ask the all German guys, [class 1] Belstein has bent over backwards to help in their setup.
They have all required diamenters as the rest, call Shane for details.

Stuart

[Ramsey_ElWardani]

"Stonger and 10%-25% lighter than similar welded steel bypass shock bodies without the distortion from welding"

It's in their press releases and on their site http://www.bilstein.com/offroad.php#9300
Perhaps the key word there is similar; an all steel shock with the same size body, shaft, reservoir, hose and bypasses would have to weigh more. They have to be the same size apples I guess.

[ChuckH]

The aluminum body is probably thicker, enough so to weigh more than the steel one, everything else is about the same

[Stephen]

Alum being 1/3rd lighter, you'd thing they would weigh less but I think it only works if you don't use 3 times material as much as a steel part.

[Jerry Zaiden]

Well we now have these on our EDGE. I can say they are really nice inside and out. I like the way they do their bypass clickers and the overall finish of the product.
We took the truck out to Barstow today just to get an idea of where to go with the valving. As of now the rear needs more compresion valving and less rebound valving. The front needs more rebound valving and compression valving. We are going back out this friday with the Bilstein trailer and a few of their techs to revalve these shocks and get them dialed in for our truck.

Here is a video of our EDGE with the Bilsteins on it. keep in mind these are out of the box and have yet to be valved. I will also post video after this Friday, I am sure these shocks are going to work really well.

Here is the video
http://media.putfile.com/edgebilstein

If you can't few it you need the new quicktime 7 from apple.com
get it here---http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/win.html



...

[cosmo]

Anxious to hear how your truck is with the Blachhawk shocks on.Did Bilstein tune them for you? What size are you running on the front? 12",14".How hot do they get?

[Jerry Zaiden]

Anxious to hear how your truck is with the Blachhawk shocks on.Did Bilstein tune them for you? What size are you running on the front? 12",14".How hot do they get?


We spent the day with BILSTEIN at Plaster city last Friday. We got about 50% there and will go out to Barstow in the next few weeks to do some more testing. The rear works awesome! I was blown away with the looks of the Blackhawk shocks now I am blown away with the performance!
The front shocks are 10" travel 1 60mm coilover and 1 60mm 4 tube by-pass.

http://www.camburg.com/images/CamburgEDGE-Racetruck/BilsteinTest/PlasterCity/1.jpg

[Kbach66]

I was wondering what you guys were up to. I was out testing at ATV's at Corral Canyon and was headed home behind you at the checkpoint on the 8 just East of Vieja's around 7:15 friday night. I'm willing to bet that you had way more fun testing that day than I did.....I was testing utility quads....Oh joy!

The truck/trailer definitely looks good Jerry!

[Jerry Zaiden]

I was wondering what you guys were up to. I was out testing at ATV's at Corral Canyon and was headed home behind you at the checkpoint on the 8 just East of Vieja's around 7:15 friday night. I'm willing to bet that you had way more fun testing that day than I did.....I was testing utility quads....Oh joy!

The truck/trailer definitely looks good Jerry!



I can say it was a long day, Fun??? well.....YES :)

[cosmo]

Looks like the rear is bottoming in the photo?

[Jerry Zaiden]

Looks like the rear is bottoming in the photo?

This is closer to bottom out but still has an inch or 2 left in it :)

http://www.camburg.com/images/CamburgEDGE-Racetruck/BilsteinTest/EDGEmain2.jpg

[Jangaard]

There are lots of variables, shock size, reservoir size, how many lines are running to the reservoir ( like in the truggy) if your running a solid piston, or a piston thats setup with a high rate spring stack, and even the color of the shock, black radiates much more heat than most colors so a black shock would run cooler.


I answered my own question concerning color and heat dissipation properties. For those of you that were questioning yourselves,,,,, These two links have a good explination.

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9ibyjEH3AFEU8YAXCJXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE3NjMxZjB yBGNvbG8DZQRsA1dTMQRwb3MDNARzZWMDc3IEdnRpZANZUzc1X zE2Mg--/SIG=12kpejr9b/EXP=1141058951/**http%3a//www.madsci.org/posts/archives/feb2001/983996247.Eg.r.html

http://www.electro-optical.com/bb_rad/emissivity/matlemisivty.htm

[Jerry Zaiden]

Here is the truck bottomed out ;)

Also here is a new little video of the truck last week.

click here (http://www.camburg.com/movies/edge306LG.mov)


And the shocks on the truck!
http://www.camburg.com/images/CamburgEDGE-Racetruck/SOFT%20rear%20shocks.jpg



...

[cosmo]

What's the latest on the shocks? Where and when will you be racing with these? What gas pressure are they reccomending?

[Jerry Zaiden]

What's the latest on the shocks? Where and when will you be racing with these? What gas pressure are they reccomending?

We just raced the MORE race last weekend. The shocks work great! No problems and we have 700 miles on them so far. We have 60 psi in them right now, very smooth ride in the back. Now we need to focus on the front shocks to make it smoother and handle the rough stuff. In time we will post more pictures and video of the truck in action.

[Jerry Zaiden]

I thought I would bring up this thread instead of starting another one. Now that I have had more miles on this truck Parker 425, Terrible's 250, and the Vegas To Reno 564 miles. As well as close to another 1000 miles of test time and other events. I can say with 100% accuracy these shocks are just awesome! They are always in the best condition of all the shocks and have the least amount of work into setting them up. We are now also running them on the rear of our new stock full Toyota Tundra in this years Baja 1000.
If you have any questions on how they work or want some input on how we feel please call me at the shop or PM me anytime.

Here is a little in car video of our suspension that I posted a while back. This footage of the suspension is Barstow Main going 80+ mph... The last section is the start at Barstow going to and past the Anthill.

YouTube - Camburg Racing Incar suspension shots

[Random Thoughts Racing]

Since this thread has resurfaced I would like to provide an update on the number of questions and statements in earlier posts.

The Susag Tundra and FST Avalanche trucks in the earliest posts are not currently racing. We are in contact with the teams and will update and tune them when the programs become active again.


John, I was told from numerous people that the only people that can valve and reseal a Blackhawk is Bilstein themselves. That the shocks are very hard to work with, that most guys can't valve them. Is this true? The reason I am asking is because some people are steering away from them because of this reason, that you have to send them in to Bilstein to have them worked on every time you wanna valve the shock. Thanks for any help/info.
-Ryan

Currently, we prefer to tune the cars initial valving in the desert and revalve as requested at normal service intervals. This reduces the teams need to open the shocks or worry about valving at all. The shocks are serviceable by the consumer and we would be happy to assist with valving advice for those who service their own shocks. The technical manual has been posted on our website for quite a while.

......Only one concern; I have seen many bypass shocks take a heavy ding or two. I wonder how the body and bypass veins will hold up under a heavy impact? They are sure to crack rather than bend or dent rendering them useless. A little protective shielding from rocks would be wise If they are ever mounted in a vulnerable location IMO.
QUOTE]

I have an example tube from Victor Herrera's truck when he broke a front spindle. There is damage to the outside of the tube and one adjuster is nearly shaved off. Despite this the tube did not leak, bend, and is still actually functional. I will have this tube on display at the upcoming Primm race if you want to stop by the trailer and see it.

[QUOTE=ntsqd;112810]Except for the $10k cost per each of the 90* machine tool head(s). Remember that they have to bore the holes thru the side of the body from the inside, not the outside like with a welded body.

The biggest thing I didn't like about it is the sharp corners in all of those drilled intersections. I suspect that turbulence and cavitation are going to be more of an issue than in the welded body (which still doesn't have great flow dynamics). Look for the high end teams to have their B/H's Extrude Honed in the by-pass tubes.

The tool that drills the intersecting ports also chamfers the edges. There should not be any sharp edges in the tube.

The bypass tubes don't look like their part of the shock body extrusion, different color and you can see a edge to them next to the body, no need for that $10k tool, I bet their put on with a high tech glue.

This ones funny, no glue is used on these. The tube and bypasses are one piece, period.

The shock with res weight and oil???? RTR???

Fully operational shocks weigh...
12"~32lb
14"~35lb
16"~37lb
18"~40lb

Many applications pair these with a 2" coil and a 2.5" spring rather than a 2.5" coilover and 3" spring. Some additional weight savings occur with this setup.

See you at contingency in Primm!

Joel Ward
Off Road/Motorsports Technical Supervisor
ThyssenKrupp Bilstein of America
(858) 386-5955
joel.ward@bilstein.com

[partybarge_pilot]

The Susag Tundra and FST Avalanche trucks in the earliest posts are not currently racing. We are in contact with the teams and will update and tune them when the programs become active again.


Rumor has it that the Tundra will be at the 1000 with a new high HP TRD motor.

[la2baja]

Now that this thread is back to life I would like to add that we (Chase Racing) run the Bilstein Black Hawks. We spent in excess of a year researching our options from chassis to drive trains and shocks. We have been racing for a long time and we have delt with all the "major" shock companies in racing. Joel Ward and the guys at Bilstein have an outstanding product with no equal. Joel and his crew also stand by their product 110%. The staff at Bilstein are an enormous help to us with regular tuning, desert testing and support at the events. Ask any team in the desert with Black Hawks. It is a package deal like no other!

[motochris]

FOA has a brand new Chenowth Class 1 being finished up right now with the Blackhawks as well.

[Jerry Zaiden]

Now that we have raced and completed the whole 2007 race session on the Blackhawks I can say that they are worth every penny! We are now running them on our Stock full Tundra in the rear and in 1034 mile we had ZERO problems. It will be interesting this year to see what the new Toyota Tundra can do against trucks that are dialed in and have been racing for years. I feel that the Blackhawks are a huge advantage over most other shocks because of how they are designed. There is not as much harsh feeling with the lower nitrogen pressure and the use of there anti cavitaion valve.

Here is a little video of the new owner of the Camburg Racing EDGE Marc Burnett driving through Plaster City...

YouTube - MB-Motorsports.com/Camburg Racing

[andyw]

wow. what i wouldnt give for that truck . it destroys whoops.... now i look outside and hate my broke mans toyota... i hate being poor!

[66baja]

We run them on our 5/16 baja and I must say these shocks are simply amazing. Bilstein's support on these is second to none. We just had some updates done(free of charge) on the black hawks and the 9100's we run on the front. We've had the shock body so warm we could barely touch it and they NEVER faded. Simply the most amazing shock outh there.

[DSRacing]

We run them on our 5/16 baja and I must say these shocks are simply amazing. Bilstein's support on these is second to none. We just had some updates done(free of charge) on the black hawks and the 9100's we run on the front. We've had the shock body so warm we could barely touch it and they NEVER faded. Simply the most amazing shock outh there.

Did you race the Fud 200 in February?

[66baja]

Yup....the harrahs 5/16.