Square bungs

[BMF]

Is there a company out there selling bungs for square tubing? If so what are your thoughts on fabbing equal length beams out of square tubing? I plan on cutting the end off of the stock beams, and using square tubing heavily plated of course to finish them off.

[Jack]

I think you just put round bungs in the square tube and fill the gaps. Square threads suck......

I'm sure lots will tell you not to build with square and will be able to explain why much better then me. I just know you don't do that.

Now if there was triagle tube thats a whole new story...

[John_Bitting]

They make square bungs but they are $60 - $130 each. Way too pricey. use round ones. Kartek does sell them though. I am sure Baja Racing Products and McKenzies also carries them.

[BMF]

I understand that axial loads would be a possible problem with using square tubing. My conclusion is that with the plating, and the support of the radius arm it should be plenty strong. What type of metal are bungs typically made of? Are they just mild steel, or chromoly. I am considering milling my own square bungs.

[partybarge_pilot]

For the less than the price of the Kartek ones, you can get a 3' stick of material from McMaster carr and have a local machine shop make you some. Or if you can make a square cut and drill and tap you can make your own much cheaper. Welding a round bung in a square tube is a poor idea.

[BMF]

Thats real funny! Square threads. Thanks a lot

[BMF]

what is the bung material? http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[dezerts10]

pretyy sure its chromoly.

on a side note i just bought a ft of 4140 alloy steel from mcmaster carr whats the difference between 4130 and 4140 they didnt offer the 4130 in bar stock only tubing.

oh yeah machining your own bungs is the way to go if you have access to a machine shop or... i have done it for friends and my self a number of times

Gregg

[Kritter]

[ QUOTE ]
what is the bung material? http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

DOM or Chromoly...depends on the application...personally for anythign other then a race vehicle that will be beat to piss I would go DOM.

[partybarge_pilot]

DOM? How are you going to make bungs square bungs out of round tubing?

1018 mild steel or 4140....... I would go with the 4140 as the price isn't going to be that much more.

[Kritter]

he was asking bungs in general...and in general, bungs are tubing...

[hoeker]

10 pts of carbon.

that's the answer my heattreater said when i asked him what the difference was. bottom line, not much. i made my own square bungs out of 4140.

[BMF]

It sounds like 4140 is the way to go. As for the square I beam idea what does everybody think? has anybody seen this done before?

[Solo1469]

Heres a picture of a square bung... I think they sell them a kartek. Not sure on the price though...

[Kritter]

Looks like a bung out of Dave G's shop...pricey piece right there...

[BMF]

Yeah i saw something similar to that at SEMA. I think I ordered info on them. Im not sure if I like that locking styloe bolt. Thats part of the reason I planned on making my own. I just want some simple bungs that just use a jam nutt. Im sure if I look around long enough I can find somewhere that sells square Chro-mo stock.

[V8Ranger]

I'm pretty sure Jack at HM Bearing carries them.

On another note, isn't there a little bit of concern making the bungs out of 4140 and welding them?

[Just4Fun]

I think the bung in the picture is one of Porters. He made us 2 w/ a pinch bolt for our trailing arms. The only thing I didnt like about Kartek's where that they ran 2 pinch bolts, so the cut out was like 1.5" long; which looked like the weekest part of the bung. I would just have a machine shop make them, especially if you dont want to run a pinch bolt.

[Greg]

Beams made from plate and not tubing???? Are you nuts, that will never work. They must look just like every beam out there or they will fail. Suspention parts should NEVER be made form plate. Boy, im glad I could help.

[Kritter]

cmon now Greg..Fabtech started the wider beam trend from 4130 plate about 10 or more years ago...now its back in style!

http://www.fabtechmotorsports.com/html/ford2wdrangerexplorer.html

[Timmah]

Kritter,
Think a little bit. Then try to remember Greg's beams on his old Ranger! LMFAO!!!!! http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[ALEX]

Yea these ones.

[BMF]

I hope that was sarchasm Greg. I plan on using square tube for the main portion, and plating the front and back side, so they look boxed. Last time I saw some equal lengths I think they had about 100 lbs. in plate and weld added to them. The beam and radius arm allready wigh about 100 lbs. Im just trying to eliminate some of the weight.

[BMF]

BTW Alex thats a nice look at the underside there. Driver error, or component failure?

[BMF]

On the upside down truck, does anyone know the reasoning for having the radius arm mounted so far towards the center?

[BigAaron]

Greg took radius arms to the next level on his truck, he had so much wheel travel he had DIAMETER ARMS! But seriously I think he found that the traditional mounting location caused too much load to be put on the radius arm and the mounts on the chassis so he re-engineered it. From the looks of his truck going through massive whoops at 60+ mph I would say it worked as planned.

[ALEX]

The first pic I posted had no failures in it; Greg never had a sway bar though. I'll let him explain his reasoning for that design, the design actually makes a lot of sense, and had solid reasoning behind it, the way it performed was proof enough. The front suspension didn't bend/break when he rolled it (this time really bad, at speed) the beginning of the year. Hell, his beam basically dug a 20 foot long trench before it rolled. That roll was caused by the failure of a ford part, although it was being used well beyond what ford had in mind. http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[BMF]

Here is a pdf of what I was thinking of doing for the Beams. Keep in mind I threw these together in CAD in like five minutes. If they dont look exactly proportioned that is why.

[artjr979]

What size heims do you guys recommend for radius arms and beams?? And at what point do you need to run a sway bar??

[BMF]

I plan on using 1-1/2" heims. Some would say it is overkill, but why not?

[Greg]

If your gonna build your own beams, do just that. Dont bother withthe stock ends. You dont need to make them from billet either, although you can buy them that way. Dont bother with the tubing, just use plate. All the forces are on the outermost part of the structure, the skin, make that srtong, not the inside. Ill write more after the mdr race, im off to contingency.

[BMF]

I was just going to use the end, because I have severall sets of equal length beams already. It will save time, and money. I think the old beams are pretty tuff too. I'm doing king pins. I havent seen anybody doing billet king pin ends yet.

[BMF]

Im guessing everybody is back from BAJA now so I just wanted to keep this on the first page for the shop section, as my questions arent all answered yet.

[BMF]

Greg, what else did you have to tell me? My reason for the square tube, is that it provides some interior bracing, and I can make them look ok with my mig. I dont have a tig, and it will be pretty forgiving to just lap the plate about a 1/4" short all the way around and mig it. I have a small mill drill lathe combo, nothing big enough to do a whole beam end yet.

[BMF]

I've been pretty bored at work, and spent most of the day trying to fing websites that offered some different types of chromoly, and other metals in a multitude of different shapes, and sizes. This is what I came up with.

www.steelforge.com (http://www.steelforge.com)

www.californiametal.com (http://www.californiametal.com)

www.wickaircraft.com (http://www.wickaircraft.com)

[RRose]

Don't cut the heads off of stock "I" beams to use on your new ones... thats what I did and I egged out the holes for the ball joints after a year of use.... get yourself a set of billit heads from camburg or giant.... or machine them up yourself.... its worth it in the long run.

[BMF]

Once again these are king pin beams, not ball joint style. If I get a bigger mill I might make some ends in the future, but for now I just plan on using the stock ends.

[artjr979]

how much do those billet ends cost for the ball joints? what are the benefits of running king pins vs. ball joints?

[BMF]

Did anybody find out where the billet ends are sold, and how much they go for? Does any body make billet king pin ends?

[McClintock]

Giant Motorsports sells their billet ends for around 600 bucks. They are out of San Clemente, CA

[KitRacer]

ANYBODY INTERESTED IN THIS?

[BMF]

KitRacer do you make those bungs? Or where you just showing the design? If you do make them how much are they?

[KitRacer]

I am making some for myself, and was trying to see if there is a market for them. If there is, I will try to sell some to ORW or something. There's nothing special about them other than that I can make them real cheap out of some old 2" round solid 1018 I have here at work. I cant justify the price of the other ones for an upper arm on a play vehicle.

[BMF]

If you keep the price almost parralell to the standard bung, I think there is definately a market for these. If they cost a ton more I'll probably just make my own. I cant believe nobody is carying something like that. It seems like there is a trend starting where more square tubing is being used. I'm not sure the time and wear really warrant doing this out of 2" round. Ideally you need to make them out of square stock. If you could get 1-1/2 square 4130 stock you could just drill, thread, mill the 4 sides, and be done.

[Desert Specialties]

We have these for an 1-1/4 thread with pinch bolt out of 4130.

[BMF]

Just currious, why dont you make any without the pinch bolt? How much are they? Where do you get your material, and is it round when you start out?

[Desert Specialties]

We may make more without the pinch bolt.
It would lower the cost quite a bit but reduces the Bling or high tech factor.

They fit in a 1-3/4 Square

[BMF]

Where I plan on using them for an I beam the pinch bolt is not nesecary. I would think that on something like that it would actually lessen the integrity of the piece. For an upper arm recieving minimal loads I'm sure they're fine. As for bling factor, I'm not building a sand car!